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Fun with Infinitives

从 fontanaplumo, 2013年3月7日

讯息： 33

语言: English

sudanglo (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日上午10:31:26

Looking at the hits in Tekstaro it actually seems a bit tricky to judge which is the more common meaning though.
But not if you also count all the multitudinous hit for tagmanĝo vespermanĝo matenmanĝo.

Ganove (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日下午1:03:37

I guess it is fair enough if a word has more than one meaning.
Some people might say homonyms causes misunderstandings but do they not also allow to play with the language, to give the language its uniqueness and characteristics and to speak between the lines?
Think of the word "persone", it can either be understood as "kiel persono" (=like a person) or "pere de sono" (=by means of sound).
So could not be "manĝo" a homonimo, too?

I was said that Esperanto tends to simplicity.
Would it not be simpler if "manĝ" just represents an idea and by adding further affixes one can specify this idea?
Then there would not be an word category at all.

But I guess there's a contradiction in this assymption, since it does not fit the use of "pura". So either this assumtpion is wrong or the interpretation of "pura". I guess the former is more likely.

Keep in mind, most of the languages are not logical, I guess there is a reason why they are not.
The problem is no one can confirm any assumption about Esperanto, due to the lack of a native speaker community.

But I am getting off the subject.

Anyway, one should learn the most common way of Esperanto and its most common words.
So if "manĝo"s most common meanings are food and the act of eating then one should keep in mind both of them.

hebda999 (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日下午3:24:31

sudanglo:
Looking at the hits in Tekstaro it actually seems a bit tricky to judge which is the more common meaning though.
But not if you also count all the multitudinous hit for tagmanĝo vespermanĝo matenmanĝo.
Which can also mean :

tagmanĝo = the act of eating during the day
vespermanĝo = the act of eating in the evening
...

How will you explain the following with tagmanĝo=food:

La tagmanĝo pasis
Post la tagmanĝo...
...antaŭ la tagmanĝo...
Dum la tagmanĝo...
...

This still doesn't prove anything. Such things make Esperanto more difficult than it needs to be. Because the meaning is not derived logically, but depends on usage.

sudanglo (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日下午5:02:56

Which can also mean :

tagmanĝo = the act of eating during the day
vespermanĝo = the act of eating in the evening
Give me a sentence which demonstrates this.

sudanglo (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日下午5:04:38

The problem is no one can confirm any assumption about Esperanto, due to the lack of a native speaker community
Linguists' piffle.

Ganove (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日下午6:38:10

sudanglo:
Ganove:The problem is no one can confirm any assumption about Esperanto, due to the lack of a native speaker community
Linguists' piffle.
Well, this is easily said but why do you think so?

RiotNrrd (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日下午7:38:05

Ganove:The problem is no one can confirm any assumption about Esperanto...
In theory, the Akademio can do exactly that. They are commonly held to be the final word on the subject.

hebda999 (显示个人资料) 2013年3月10日下午10:35:54

sudanglo:
Which can also mean :

tagmanĝo = the act of eating during the day
vespermanĝo = the act of eating in the evening
Give me a sentence which demonstrates this.
I already have:

La tagmanĝo pasis
Post la tagmanĝo...
...antaŭ la tagmanĝo...
Dum la tagmanĝo...
...

These are actions which take time. Can't you see that? They are all from Tekstaro.

sudanglo (显示个人资料) 2013年3月11日上午11:27:10

Not convincing Hebda. These look like examples where the idea is of a meal.

hebda999 (显示个人资料) 2013年3月11日上午11:31:35

sudanglo:Not convincing Hebda. These look like examples where the idea is of a meal.
Then how can you be "dum" a meal? These "antaŭ", "post"... are all about time. An action takes time. A meal takes a place.

From PIV:

"manĝo:

Ago manĝi nutraĵon pli-malpli arte pretigitan, je difinitaj horoj ĉiutage: matenmanĝo, tagmanĝo, vespermanĝo; kiaj estas la horoj de la manĝoj?; veni post la manĝoZ; ĝi estas mustardo post la manĝoZ; ✞ la sankta (M)manĝo (la lasta manĝo de Jesuo kun la disĉiploj, kiun la tradicio rilatigas kun eŭkaristio)."

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