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Someone who is patronizing?

貼文者: jkph00, 2013年4月24日

訊息: 22

語言: English

jkph00 (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月24日下午9:16:48

I believe the verb patronaĉi means to address another person in a disdainful, patronizing manner. That normally does not encourage liking of the patronizer on the part of the one being patronized. How would one express the phrase "patronizing excrescence," as in, "He wanted to punch the patronizing excrescence in the nose?" I'm still new at this, so forgive me if I err. Would it be something like patronaĉulo? Or patronaĉantulo?

Dankon denove!

erinja (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月24日下午10:58:50

I wouldn't take those words to mean "patronize" at all. It would mean to be a bad patron, which is a completely different thing.

"degni" might be close to the root you're looking for.

pdenisowski (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月25日上午12:12:56

The CEED gives "patronaĉi" as "treat condenscendingly" but I have to say that I don't care for that definition. I think erinja's suggestion of "degni" (to condescend) is a much better translation.

jkph00 (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月25日下午10:14:34

erinja:I wouldn't take those words to mean "patronize" at all. It would mean to be a bad patron, which is a completely different thing.

"degni" might be close to the root you're looking for.
Thanks for the suggestion, Erinja (and pdenisowski okulumo.gif ).

So how might I turn that into a way to say, e.g., "Shut up, you patronizing S.O._?" (I'm trying to get a handle on the affixes). Would fidegnaĉulo work? Or how about fidegnaĉantulo?

sudanglo (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月25日下午10:48:03

It is one of Esperanto's weaker points JK, that it lacks the variety of colourful and forceful turns of phrase for conveying strong emotion that are so abundant in the national languages.

This is quite understandable in terms of the uses to which Esperanto is usually put.

My feeling is that the verb patronaĉi could convey the idea of acting in superior, self-important and condescending manner that has aroused your ire, ie aĉe patroni, rather than Erinja's analysis as patronaĉo-i.

If very angry, I might say something like something like Ne superecu kun mi, vi putra sako da merdo.

Kondescenda would be recognizable for both English and French speakers. Perhaps that would be a useful addition to the language. If somebody degnas ion fari it doesn't necessarily imply acting in an offensively condescending manner.

yyaann (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月26日上午6:52:49

Patronizing is indeed a tough one. I tried to come up with a few kunmetaĵoj put I'm not quite satisfied. Here they are anyway:
  • desupre rigardema -- desupre-rigardemulo
  • estreca -- estreculo
  • estrekondutema -- estrekondutemulo
  • preskaŭ-infan-ig-em-a -- preskaŭ-infan-ig-em-ul-o
  • pretendplena -- pretendplenulo
  • sin-plivalorigema -- sin-plivalorigemulo
  • sin-sur-piedestal-ig-em-a -- sin-sur-piedestal-ig-em-ul-o
  • supereca -- supereculo
  • tropatramaniera -- tropatramanierulo
  • tropatreca -- tropatreculo
  • tropatrekondutema -- tropatrekondutemulo
I'm sure someone can find better ones...

Ondo (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月26日上午7:31:46

sudanglo:Kondescenda would be recognizable for both English and French speakers. Perhaps that would be a useful addition to the language. If somebody degnas ion fari it doesn't necessarily imply acting in an offensively condescending manner.
The word moŝti has been used to mean degni and I think it always has offensive overtones. How about moŝtema miskreskaĵo, fieraĉa veruko or something similar for "patronizing excrescence" (I'm learning useful English expressions here. Is this Captain Haddock?)

jkph00 (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月26日下午2:12:42

Ondo:The word moŝti has been used to mean degni and I think it always has offensive overtones. How about moŝtema miskreskaĵo, fieraĉa veruko or something similar for "patronizing excrescence" (I'm learning useful English expressions here. Is this Captain Haddock?)
Ondo, I appreciate your and yyaann's using the affixes to build these words. Dankon!

I found references to moŝt- only as a noun or an adjective, never as a verb. Where did you see or hear it used to mean condescending with offensive overtones? I'd like to see it being used that way. All of the examples I found were solely very positive in tone.

As far as I know, "patronizing excrescence" is not a phrase from Captain Haddock's rich repertoire of insults (I greatly enjoyed the Tintin stories, too). It was inspired by something in P.G. Wodehouse. I recall his phrase "excrescent blight on the landscape" to describe a child character.

erinja (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月26日下午2:56:21

I like sudanglo's suggestion of "supereci". It is the meaning of patronizing, isn't it, that one person behaves as if they were somehow above another person? The bonus is that this construction uses the well-known Esperanto root super and should be easily understood by all.

jkph00 (顯示個人資料) 2013年4月26日下午3:09:03

sudanglo:It is one of Esperanto's weaker points JK, that it lacks the variety of colourful and forceful turns of phrase for conveying strong emotion that are so abundant in the national languages.
Yes, I recall a number of threads where you have mentioned that as a lack. I plan to attend the NASK in North Carolina this summer and a goal will be to hear how people put feeling, i.e., life, into their speech.

sudanglo:My feeling is that the verb patronaĉi could convey the idea of acting in superior, self-important and condescending manner that has aroused your ire, ie aĉe patroni, rather than Erinja's analysis as patronaĉo-i.
So you feel the -aĉ affix does have enough of a negative connotation to make that change, eh? Interesting. I am glad to have confirmed I am on the right track. In spoken Esperanto, does one ever double up on the stressed syllable to emphasize that? Or draw it out in speech to emphasize it?

sudanglo:If very angry, I might say something like Ne superecu kun mi, vi putra sako da merdo.
Now, Sudanglo, don't be coy. What are you trying to say? okulumo.gif

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