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Choo choo

de Bruso, 13 de mayo de 2013

Aportes: 11

Idioma: English

Bruso (Mostrar perfil) 13 de mayo de 2013 17:16:11

Is there a way to represent "baby talk" in Esperanto? presumably this has come up in translating children's literature.

I'm especially interested in how to translate "choo choo" (meaning a steam locomotive).

Vespero_ (Mostrar perfil) 13 de mayo de 2013 21:58:17

Kajto has a song called "Chuk," which is the sound of the wheels of the train ("chug," in English). Based on that, I would say "Chuu" or "Chu" would not be far off.

sudanglo (Mostrar perfil) 13 de mayo de 2013 23:32:15

Vikipedia paĝo

The way to solve this problem is to do some research on the equivalent in various languages (you could ask in the Esperanto forums) and if there is some degree of communality, then just Esperantise it.

Just a suggestion - Ĉihuhu

noelekim (Mostrar perfil) 14 de mayo de 2013 07:53:20

Bruso:Is there a way to represent "baby talk" in Esperanto? presumably this has come up in translating children's literature.

I'm especially interested in how to translate "choo choo" (meaning a steam locomotive).
In a discussion about this a few years ago, Antonio Codazzi quoted from "Fabeloj de la verda pigo" (1981) by Louis Beaucaire:

"Baldaŭ lia apuda paŝado vekis la lokomotiveton, kiu malfermis unu okulon kaj suspiris: "Ŝŝŝ!" [...] "Ĉuĉu estas mia nomo."

- Ĉuĉu! Ĉuĉu! Kie vi estas?

Li aŭdis nur malproksiman korŝiran adiaŭon: tut-tut, kaj nenion plu.

sudanglo (Mostrar perfil) 14 de mayo de 2013 08:41:48

I get the impression that a common factor across a number of languages is that the bru-imito begins with 'ĉu' so 'ĉu-ĉu' would have some recognizability.

However the italian usage Ĉuf-ĉuf, I find particularly appealing.

The bizarre thing in all this, is that any modern infant would in all probability never have had any exposure to a steam train and its associated noises.

Ĉuf-ĉuf is not a bru-imito of a train, as anybody might encounter such today, but a separate piece of vocabulary to be learnt.

Is this general tendency of languages to fossilize and preserve older expressions (whose meaning would at one time have been self-evident) a desirable tendency in a language like Esperanto?

This ready acceptance of historical baggage (or the preservation of convention beyond the natural sell-by-date) is not confined to lexis. Already the disconnect with the everyday reality can be seen in the case of the visual symbol for a telephone and the gesture for ring me.

sudanglo (Mostrar perfil) 14 de mayo de 2013 08:54:35

On reflection, I think borrowing from the Italian is a better solution than 'ĉu-ĉu', which could be a more a representation of a stammerer, given that ĉu is a common word in Esperanto at the beginning of a sentence.

Bruso (Mostrar perfil) 14 de mayo de 2013 13:16:47

sudanglo:
However the italian usage Ĉuf-ĉuf, I find particularly appealing.
Sounds best to me.

I was looking for a way to translate what schooling critic John Taylor Gatto calls the "talking choo-choo syndrome", meaning the dumbing down of texts, particularly with childish visuals.

"Sindromo de ĉuf-ĉuf parolanta"?
Is this general tendency of languages to fossilize and preserve older expressions (whose meaning would at one time have been self-evident) a desirable tendency in a language like Esperanto?

This ready acceptance of historical baggage (or the preservation of convention beyond the natural sell-by-date) is not confined to lexis. Already the disconnect with the everyday reality can be seen in the case of the visual symbol for a telephone and the gesture for ring me.
What's the "save" icon on your computer look like? Mine looks like a 5.25-inch floppy disk.

sudanglo (Mostrar perfil) 14 de mayo de 2013 13:45:33

I was looking for a way to translate what schooling critic John Taylor Gatto calls the "talking choo-choo syndrome", meaning the dumbing down of texts
Infaneca parolo would do for that. Even more extreme would be beb-lingvaĵo.

For dumbing down mal-inteligentigo/sen-inteligentigo/kretenigo. Kretenigo has a particularly pleasing ring to it.

Malspritigo is also a possibility. For dumbed down en formato por stultuloj/malsprituloj.

erinja (Mostrar perfil) 14 de mayo de 2013 14:37:34

Cxuk-cxuk works well, in the sense that you could say that it imitates the clatter of the wheels on the tracks (which still exists as a train sound), as opposed to the puffing steam locomotive sound that no longer exists.

Bruso (Mostrar perfil) 18 de junio de 2013 16:24:28

sudanglo:For dumbing down mal-inteligentigo/sen-inteligentigo/kretenigo. Kretenigo has a particularly pleasing ring to it.
On google books I found this in Anna Lowenstein's "La ŝtona urbo":

"Tiuj stultaj televidelsendaĵoj kretenigas la infanojn."

That works.

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