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ŝranko - what is it?

od erinja, 18. srpnja 2013.

Poruke: 39

Jezik: English

erinja (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 08:16:02

This question deals with the English translation of our new lernu! story.

The story uses the word "ŝranko" to describe a wardrobe that holds clothing (this will likely be edited to "vesto-ŝranko" to make this clearer), and also to describe a cavity with a door that acts as a food dispenser, and also to describe a box with the rough dimensions of a wardrobe that functions as a time machine.

I had a discussion with the author, who is British, and we discovered that we had some disagreement on the best English translation of these words. Anna felt that "cupboard" was the best translation for "ŝranko". In my opinion, Americans may find it confusing to speak of keeping clothes in a cupboard, or taking food out of a cupboard in a restaurant, or stepping into a cupboard that was a time machine. I suggested "cabinet", which to my American ear seems like a neutral word to describe all three situations, but Anna thought that this word sounded archaic to the British ear. The problem may go away with regard to the wardrobe - if it is referred to as a "vesto-ŝranko" we can simply refer to it as a wardrobe in English and I think everyone will understand that. And I could perhaps agree with referring to the small food-dispensing cavity as a "cupboard" since this agrees with the dimensions of kitchen cupboards that Americans are used to talking about. But stepping into a 'ŝranko' that acts as a time machine seems a bit problematic to me, if Americans find the word 'cupboard' confusing, and if Brits find 'cabinet' strangely archaic. I would prefer not to refer to it as a wardrobe, since it doesn't hold clothing, though it does have that dimension. If possible I would like to refer to the food dispenser and the time machine with the same word, since they are both "ŝranko" in the text, and I would like to minimize confusion.

The present translator put it as "closet" with regard to the wardrobe and the time machine, which I am definitely changing. Even for an American, a closet is built into a wall and definitely not a free standing apparatus.

Ideas, comments, musings, anyone?

Fenris_kcf (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 10:52:45

Maybe "chest" or "console"?

NJ Esperantist (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 11:06:14

The only thing I come up with is Locker.

agarrido18 (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 11:27:16

Will definitely be keeping watch of this thread. I alone translates that story to Filipino chapter-by-chapter, and so I am aware of this situation, it's kinda confusing as well what word to use given the situations aforementioned in the story, not counting the fact that I actually use English as my reference point when translating pages (I have to admit that my mind processes faster while reading English than Esperanto.)

Thanks for putting up this thread anyway! ridulo.gif

sudanglo (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 11:28:21

The objection to cabinet (in British English) is not perhaps so much that the word is archaic as that usually one cannot step into a cabinet - drinks cabinet, medicine cabinet, display cabinet. A cupboard however can be a small wall-mounted thing and large like a wardrobe.

Usually in translations one does not have the problem of producing a translation which works in both American and English (when those languages differ) as the publication will be targeted for a specific market.

I would use 'cupboard' for the time machine with a footnote for the Americans who don't know any British usage, or add some adjective (eg large, recessed, whatever) to get over any wrong impression for American ears.

xdzt (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 12:09:16

sudanglo:A cupboard however can be a small wall-mounted thing and large like a wardrobe.
I've found this to be a British usage. An American would never consider, for example, a pantry to be a cupboard.

Mustelvulpo (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 12:54:22

To Americans, a cupboard is found only in the kitchen and is used for storing food or dishes. To me the word ŝranko means any kind of large cabinet used for storage and fitting in with the furniture in a room- cupboard, cabinet, wardrobe, armoire, etc. Vesto-ŝranko sounds like a good, clearly understood word to describe the storage compartment in the story.

RiotNrrd (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 15:16:40

I would definitely not use cupboard. It appears to mean something quite different to Americans than to the British.

Closet, however, does not necessarily imply something built in. I have, in fact, had several closets which were pieces of furniture rather than tiny built-in rooms. And I am quite American.

brw1 (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 15:26:24

Mustelvulpo:To Americans, a cupboard is found only in the kitchen and is used for storing food or dishes. To me the word ŝranko means any kind of large cabinet used for storage fitting in with the furniture in a room- cupboard, cabinet, wardrobe, armoire, etc. Vesto-ŝranko sounds like a good, clearly understood word to describe the storage compartment in the story.
That must be correct because vesto-sxranko is the word live mocha gives for closet sxranko I think is cupboard!

robbkvasnak (Prikaz profila) 18. srpnja 2013. 15:46:12

Ŝranko comes from the German word Schrank, which is any piece of furniture that is used to store things. A refrigerator is a Glaciŝranko and is not built in. A Libroŝranko may also be moveable. The word Schrank is one that I have used to explain the Whorf-Sapir theories to students. When I was living in Germany where I also had American friends with whom I spoke English, I noticed that as they became more fluent in German, they too incorporated the word Schrank into their English vocabulary! These are some of the categories that native speakers are not conscious of but that do determine how we classify things. Most abstract words fall into this category. English is interesting for the differing ways that it treats Germanic words as opposed to Greco-Latinate words (through French). Especially adjectives and adverbs show this. The two words "muggy" and "humid" have a similar meaning. But when the heat is turned up it gets muggier but not humider (except in dialect). So Esperanto has it's cryptofields (as per Whorf) as well.

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