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"English has been my pain for 15 years"

از marco_, 3 سپتامبر 2013

پست‌ها: 45

زبان: English

Korsivo (نمایش مشخصات) 13 سپتامبر 2013،‏ 20:55:01

I find this thread very interesting for two reasons. One is that, coincidentally, I am an Italian living in multicultural and multilingual London for about 15 years. The second is that (you have already guessed) I am still learning.
Antirez describes with humility and eloquence his efforts and his frustrations when trying to understand the natives. Yet his written English is really good, almost as good as that of an educated native.
My experience of being in England as an immigrant has a lot do with second language acquisition, but also with “second culture acquisition ”, as it were. Sometimes I found and I still find it difficult to understand because people talk about things relating to their own environment, their own humour and the things they do or specialise in, which may be very different to those you would experience in Italy or wherever.
The other point I want to make is that in a country like the UK natives speak with many different accents: someone from Glasgow may not be so easily understood by someone from Brighton.
My personal bugbear, for instance, is the Irish accent. Every time I make a phone call about something important I hope that on the other end there is no quick Irish accent.
English is a language laden with idioms, expressions and slang of all sorts, whereas Esperanto has hardly any. In the UK everyone speaks in different ways and I wouldn't worry if you can't understand everything. Esperanto is easier in many respects, but wait until the day it will be manhandled by its natives!

Korsivo (نمایش مشخصات) 13 سپتامبر 2013،‏ 21:51:43

Having said that, the best spoken English is, in my opinion, still a property of the Queen. If you can afford to buy a share, that could give you an extra advantage in life.
Damn the day I fell in love with her!
As far as Zamenhof ,well, I'm not gay yet.

swalf (نمایش مشخصات) 14 سپتامبر 2013،‏ 13:01:11

An interesting point of view, I mainly agree with this Sicilian guy and I've discovered the same difficulties in spoken English and with understanding of native speakers' talks. People often forget that nearly 4 billions of people can't understand English entirely, whereas only a small elite in the world can use it fluently and fruitfully (and unfortunately I take no part in it). A small reflection on the role that English should be take in our life can preserve people from uncritical attitudes. The searching for a more practical and fair alternative compared with this misuse of English in the medias, schools, universities and at work places should be an unpostponable task for each of us.

Nevertheless English language and its slangs or vernaculars are very charming, I'm in love with Queen's music and with other wonderful artists who singing in this language; we only shouldn't use it as global language.

kaŝperanto (نمایش مشخصات) 20 سپتامبر 2013،‏ 16:57:40

Fenris_kcf:
kaŝperanto:… Our elected officials are wondering why our students are falling behind those of other nations, yet they fail to see English as the possible (likely) cause. I can't even imagine trying to learn English as a non-native speaker. …
kaŝperanto:… one of the most difficult languages …
I agree that English is much more difficult in general than many people claim it is. But aren't you exaggerating a little bit here? The basic grammar of English is relatively easy. Only the orthography is really messed up from the bottom to the top. Reforming it ain't possible i guess, though i would like to see it.

Lørniq Iqlic wiþ ə ri:formd ortågrəfi: wud bi: kwayt intristiq ay ges. ridulo.gif

But again: The grammer ain't hard to learn and since you don't need to care for orthography in oral communication, English mostly does a good job as a "bridge-language".
I may be exaggerating, as the only other languages I've learned are Spanish and Esperanto. I guess for me the more regular grammar of these languages is easier to wrap your head around (I've always liked this colloquialism) than that of English. My English writing/speaking abilities have always been more 'native', so I hardly ever even consider grammar.
I once dabbled in Japanese and later Chinese, but not far enough to get a full understanding of their grammar.

My main beef with English is the spelling system and large required vocabulary, not to even mention the varied pronunciation issues. I of course have the correct non-regional midwest US accent that all of the news reporters learn to use in the US.
Proof: they all sound American when they sing. okulumo.gif

robbkvasnak (نمایش مشخصات) 8 دسامبر 2013،‏ 19:42:11

Hi! I live in the southeastern part of Florida - some say, the most northern region of South America and other say Floribbean. At any rate, it is home to a majority of people who do not speak standard American English at home yet it is the language that we have to use in public. I cannot not begin to tell anecdotes about all of the problems that it causes - the misunderstandings on everybody's part, including those who only speak "English". Since this part of the USA is not only the point of conflux for South America, Central America and the Caribbean, but also for "immigrants" from other parts of the USA and beyond, and due to the true majority of native "Spanish" speakers (ah, the Spanishes of the Americas), the "English" in common use here is full of Hispanisms. Best of all, I like hearing the natives of the islands, especially Jamaica, speaking. They have music in their language. But we would all get along better if we had Esperanto or something similar, i.e. nobody's first language but a language without all of the difficulties and quirks of English. And I write this as someone who has taught English as a foreign language for many, many years - from elementary (grade) school through adult ed and business English.

brw1 (نمایش مشخصات) 8 دسامبر 2013،‏ 20:58:52

English has been my pain my entire life as a native speaker of the American dialects we also speak different from one region to another if I would of had it my way I would of been bilingual from birth but, it never happened every other language I know I learned the hard way.

sudanglo (نمایش مشخصات) 8 دسامبر 2013،‏ 22:55:51

But aren't you exaggerating a little bit here? The basic grammar of English is relatively easy
It is quite true that English lacks the morphological complications of the Continental languages. We have no gender, the irregular verbs and plurals are not too difficult to master, as are the rules of concordance. And often the same word can be different parts of speech.

But anybody who has taught English to foreigners will confirm that even after 10 years of study the students will make basic grammatical mistakes and often render what they say incomprehensible through mispronunciation and inaccurate stressing.

And English presents many difficulties through its idioms and fixed expressions. Also it is rarely the case that words which appear to be near synonyms have the same usage. So its fast food not rapid food, but a fast car and not a quick car - and a big difference between a fast car and a fast woman

Bruso (نمایش مشخصات) 8 دسامبر 2013،‏ 23:51:31

sudanglo:So its fast food not rapid food, but a fast car and not a quick car - and a big difference between a fast car and a fast woman
Don't forget "wise man" and "wise guy".

se (نمایش مشخصات) 9 دسامبر 2013،‏ 1:26:05

But anybody who has taught English to foreigners will confirm that even after 10 years of study the students will make basic grammatical mistakes and often render what they say incomprehensible through mispronunciation and inaccurate stressing.

And English presents many difficulties through its idioms and fixed expressions. Also it is rarely the case that words which appear to be near synonyms have the same usage. So its fast food not rapid food, but a fast car and not a quick car - and a big difference between a fast car and a fast woman.
Yes, agreed and many non native speakers are facing humialation from other people. Even native speakers are facing the problem, even though this is a comedy ,it reflects how difficult English is.

Those who think English is an easy learning language must be a person who does not know a second language.

kaŝperanto (نمایش مشخصات) 9 دسامبر 2013،‏ 14:57:18

sudanglo:Also it is rarely the case that words which appear to be near synonyms have the same usage. So its fast food not rapid food, but a fast car and not a quick car - and a big difference between a fast car and a fast woman
Hah, that last example would indeed be an unfortunate mistake. Fortunately, most of such mistakes are easily spotted by those with some idea of foreign languages (many English speakers must take classes in at least one these days). Idioms and fixed expressions are tricky even to natives, since exposure varies between generations.

Let's also not forget cultural references.

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