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Pronunciation help

de ludomastro, 2013-oktobro-04

Mesaĝoj: 26

Lingvo: English

Nile (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-08 15:36:38

The sound of a Ĥo is a "voiceless velar fricative".

Voiceless means you don't use your voice, but your breath to produce the sound. Like whispering, or making the Ess, Tee, or Eff sounds.

Velar means you put the back part of your tongue against the roof of your mouth, like when you make the Kay, Gee, or En-Gee sounds.

Fricative means you make a narrow channel of air, like when you make Eff, Ess-Aytch, or Tee-Aytch sounds.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-08 16:02:32

Ĥ is also like the ch in "Bach", the composer. It's a hard sound to teach because it isn't native to English. A Spanish j can also make this sound (depending on the dialect?); it's like a very raspy and guttural h.

Nile (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-09 13:51:30

I always use a uvular sound for the j in Castilian, but I switch to velar if the j or g is followed with an i or e.

orthohawk (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-10 00:46:00

love4gives:I'm having trouble differentiating the sound between H and Ĥ. Many books or dictionary says to pronounce it as Scottish "Loch" or what not, but I don't speak Scottish so I don't know how it sounds like.
The way that i've had the most success with teaching this sound is: say "sing" and take note of where your tongue is at the "-ng" part. Keep your tongue in that position and force your breath out over the top of your tongue. Voila! ĥ

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-10 12:17:54

Is 'ĥ' so hard to learn for English Speakers? I remember as a child imitating the 'Achtung! Achtung' of second world war films without any difficulty.

ludomastro (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-10 12:20:09

The h and hx have vexed me as well. I finally started to get it when I was practicing some Arabic with a friend. There are two "h"'s in that language as well: voiced similarly to E-o.

However, I have never heard any form of Spanish remotely pronounce a "j" as "hx." Granted, my experience with Spanish is South American and not the Castilian region. I've heard it as the Esperanto "j" and occasionally as E-o "jx."

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-10 12:59:52

Surely you mean like Esperanto "h", not j. Or else, how do you pronounce "jalapeño"?

Spanish does have a lot of dialects with different pronunciations. The ĥ sound shows up in many of them. How do you pronounce the name "Jorge"?

Nile (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-10 14:23:01

/χoɾxe/ or /xoɾxe/
@Sudanglo: Most people lose their ability to learn new sounds as they age. I'm guessing that a linguist might be a bit better at it, but i'm not sure.

ludomastro (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-10 14:50:10

erinja:Surely you mean like Esperanto "h", not j. Or else, how do you pronounce "jalapeño"?

Spanish does have a lot of dialects with different pronunciations. The ĥ sound shows up in many of them. How do you pronounce the name "Jorge"?
Doh! I shouldn't post before breakfast. Yes, Erinja, you are correct on the "h" vs. "j" issue.

In my experience the Spanish "j" is almost always the E-o "h." The Spanish "y" and occasionally the "ll" are like the E-o "j." In some dialects, the "ll" is the E-o "jx."

I would use the E-o "h" for the Spanish "Jorge." Thusly, E-a: "Horhe."

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2013-oktobro-10 15:50:24

ludomastro:In my experience the Spanish "j" is almost always the E-o "h."
This is probably a function of who you learned Spanish from and who you normally speak with. The ĥ sound is actually quite widespread in many different regions where Spanish is spoken, though I couldn't break out the population numbers. I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the j is almost always pronounced like h, because there are big parts of the world where that isn't the case. (see Wikipedia's comments on the topic)

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