Сообщений: 26
Язык: English
ludomastro (Показать профиль) 10 октября 2013 г., 16:01:19
erinja:You and I had a similar discussion when I was first doing Ana Pana. I've come to the conclusion that while the hard h, "hx" and the soft h, "h" exist, I just don't hear enough of a difference to consciously distinguish them ... in Spanish. I can hear the difference in Arabic ... most of the time. While my pronunciation is wrong without the distinction in Arabic, no one seems to worry about it in Spanish.ludomastro:In my experience the Spanish "j" is almost always the E-o "h."This is probably a function of who you learned Spanish from and who you normally speak with. The ĥ sound is actually quite widespread in many different regions where Spanish is spoken, though I couldn't break out the population numbers. I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the j is almost always pronounced like h, because there are big parts of the world where that isn't the case. (see Wikipedia's comments on the topic)
This may not the best of attitudes for Esperanto; however, it's the reality I live with.
That said, I'll keep trying to force myself to use a distinction I can barely hear.
orthohawk (Показать профиль) 10 октября 2013 г., 18:47:00
erinja:Of the three dialectal pronunciations of the "j" in Spanish, the velar fricative (with your tongue touching the part of the roof of your mouth between the hard palate and the hangy thing in the back (i.e. uvula) is the standard. This, I am informed, is what the Esperanto "hx" is. In northern Spain, a uvular fricative is used. In Andalucia, Caribbean, and most coastal areas of Latin America, the Esperanto/English "h" is used.ludomastro:In my experience the Spanish "j" is almost always the E-o "h."This is probably a function of who you learned Spanish from and who you normally speak with. The ĥ sound is actually quite widespread in many different regions where Spanish is spoken, though I couldn't break out the population numbers. I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the j is almost always pronounced like h, because there are big parts of the world where that isn't the case. (see Wikipedia's comments on the topic)
ludomastro (Показать профиль) 10 октября 2013 г., 23:45:34
orthohawk:Ah, that explains it. I learned Spanish in the coastal areas south of the US border. I probably can't hear what isn't present...
Of the three dialectal pronunciations of the "j" in Spanish, the velar fricative (with your tongue touching the part of the roof of your mouth between the hard palate and the hangy thing in the back (i.e. uvula) is the standard. This, I am informed, is what the Esperanto "hx" is. In northern Spain, a uvular fricative is used. In Andalucia, Caribbean, and most coastal areas of Latin America, the Esperanto/English "h" is used.
Nile (Показать профиль) 11 октября 2013 г., 1:21:07
Been a while since I've heard my old Spanish teachers.
love4gives (Показать профиль) 11 октября 2013 г., 19:45:46
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I'll learn soon or later the difference between h and hx
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Nile (Показать профиль) 11 октября 2013 г., 20:44:45
There are very few minimal pairs of ho and ĥo in Esperanto, and few in any language.