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The N at the end of nouns

od ShannonCC, 07. november 2013

Sporočila: 12

Jezik: English

ShannonCC (Prikaži profil) 07. november 2013 19:50:18

So a dog is hundo. Would hundon be translated (in English) as "this/that dog"? Because it's related to a specific dog?

Hundoj being dogs, hundojn being "those dogs"?

So far this has been the most confusing point in Esperanto for me, so I figured I should ask ridulo.gif

erinja (Prikaži profil) 07. november 2013 20:02:35

N makes the direct object, it's a grammatical marker showing the object of an action, the thing affected by an action. We have it in English, too.

It's like the difference between he (subject) and him (object). The rules in Esperanto work slightly differently than those in English, but the idea is the same.

It can seem confusing at first, but just as it comes totally naturally to you to say "I see him" rather than "I see he", it will eventually come just as naturally to say "Mi vidas hundon" (I see a dog) but "Hundo vidas min" (A dog sees me).

ShannonCC (Prikaži profil) 07. november 2013 20:06:24

So if I'm translating to English the word is the same for both, but you have to understand by context what it would be in Esperanto, right?

I think I get it now. He/him is a good example, thanks! It's just confusing (to this native English speaker) to do it to nouns. But you're right, I'll get it.

Thanks for the explanation!

Moosader (Prikaži profil) 07. november 2013 20:20:03

A Complete Grammar of Esperanto by Ivy Kellerman Reed has been helpful for me, there are a series of small lessons on each topic.

I believe that word order isn't very strict in Esperanto, since people from different backgrounds might say things different ("Gato negra" vs. "Black cat" ).

So, if you said something like

I eat apple :
Mi manĝas pomon,
Pomon mi manĝas,
Pomon manĝas mi (I'm not sure if that ever sounds right)

But, if the apple eats me:
Pomo manĝas min,
Min pomo manĝas,
Min manĝas pomo

But, when using prepositions, you don't need the accusative n.

I am going with you: Mi iras kun vi

Preposition list

I'm a computer scientist and not much of a writer or polyglot, so I'm not that good with grammar rules or the names of different types of words (beyond nouns/verbs/adjectives/adverbs), so this is definitely something I'm learning as I study Esperanto.

Ondo (Prikaži profil) 07. november 2013 20:27:39

ShannonCC:I think I get it now. He/him is a good example, thanks! It's just confusing (to this native English speaker) to do it to nouns. But you're right, I'll get it.
You'll get it and one day it will come naturally to you to say "Lin mordis hundo" for "He was bitten by a dog". No need for a clumsy word-for-word translation with passive participles.

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 08. november 2013 20:25:18

It can seem confusing at first, but just as it comes totally naturally to you to say "I see him" rather than "I see he", it will eventually come just as naturally to say "Mi vidas hundon" (I see a dog) but "Hundo vidas min" (A dog sees me).
I know the point you are making Erinja, but when would it ever be natural to say 'a dog sees me'. I just can't imagine the circumstances.

This is even more unlikely than la plume de ma tante.

makis (Prikaži profil) 09. november 2013 01:42:28

sudanglo:]I know the point you are making Erinja, but when would it ever be natural to say 'a dog sees me'. I just can't imagine the circumstances.
It's natural for me when I'm trying to hide from my dog and I think "diable! li vidas min!". And then he tries to eat my face because he knows I was trying to hide from him. lango.gif

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 09. november 2013 11:49:50

In those circumstance you might say sh*t, the dog has seen me, but not a dog sees me.

bartlett22183 (Prikaži profil) 09. november 2013 19:09:38

????? My cat sees me throughout the day. If I had a dog, why should I not say that the dog would see me? Why can the cat see me but not the dog? ridulo.gif Mia kato min vidas.

kaŝperanto (Prikaži profil) 11. november 2013 19:38:32

sudanglo:
It can seem confusing at first, but just as it comes totally naturally to you to say "I see him" rather than "I see he", it will eventually come just as naturally to say "Mi vidas hundon" (I see a dog) but "Hundo vidas min" (A dog sees me).
I know the point you are making Erinja, but when would it ever be natural to say 'a dog sees me'. I just can't imagine the circumstances.

This is even more unlikely than la plume de ma tante.
If perhaps you and your cell-mate are hiding in a tree after having just escaped from prison and were being tracked down by a pack of bloodhounds, you might say to him "a dog sees me" when one of the many dogs sees you" (as opposed to the dog sees me).

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