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Still confused with ~n

jctrulz :lta, 11. marraskuuta 2013

Viestejä: 28

Kieli: English

Nile (Näytä profiilli) 13. marraskuuta 2013 14.49.12

I just noticed that you guys keep repeating "en la dezerton" insteas of "en la dezerto".

yyaann (Näytä profiilli) 13. marraskuuta 2013 15.43.48

Nile:I just noticed that you guys keep repeating "en la dezerton" insteas of "en la dezerto".
en la dezerton is actually correct. The accusative shows the destination.

Basically,
en la dezerto = in the desert
while
en la dezerton = into the desert

Nile (Näytä profiilli) 14. marraskuuta 2013 2.39.21

Oh that's cool. Thank you.

sudanglo (Näytä profiilli) 14. marraskuuta 2013 10.32.24

He, Jacob, sent his son into the desert
Word order is important here. The interpretation that Jakobo can apply to the subject is not valid in Li sendis sian filon Jakobo ...

You can of course say things like Zamenhof, la inventinto de Esperanto, naskiĝis en 1857.

tommjames (Näytä profiilli) 14. marraskuuta 2013 11.20.47

"Li sendis sian filon Jakobo en la dezerton" is an example of what PMEG would call identiga priskribo. I certainly would not read it as "He, Jacob, sent his son into the dezert", and I would not say it needs a comma to make the meaning clear. It's already perfectly clear.

As for the difference between that phrase and the one with the accusative "Jakobon", I struggle to see any real difference. You might argue that there's a possible shift in emphasis, but I doubt it's something anybody would readily pick up on. I suspect most would just interpret it in the same way as if the N-ending were left off, and assume the speaker had simply gone a bit overboard with his use of the accusative.

sudanglo (Näytä profiilli) 15. marraskuuta 2013 11.13.39

It is too glib to dismiss the the use of the accusative in 'identiga priskribo' as old-fashioned or to see Zamenhof's usage as inconsistent. The accusative has a role to play here in determining meaning.

Ĉu vi konas la amikon de mia filo Jakobo
Ĉu vi konas la amikon de mia filo Jakobon

Very different meanings.

Again Ĉu vi konas mian amikon D-ron Zamenhof is perfectly clear; whilst Ĉu vi konas mian amikon D-ro Zamenhof is ambiguous - are you addressing Zamenhof, or is he your friend.

That problem doesn't arise of course in Ĉu vi konas la urbon Parizo

sudanglo (Näytä profiilli) 17. marraskuuta 2013 11.52.25

I wonder whether you agree with PAG about the different interpretations of:

Tiel ni pasigis la duan monaton Oktobron
Tiel ni pasigis la duan monaton Oktobro.

PAG argues that the first means the second October and the latter means the second month (which was October)

galvis (Näytä profiilli) 25. marraskuuta 2013 0.15.47

jctrulz skribis :
Mi vidis la domon, KIUN oni anoncis en la jxurnalo.

What he doesn't know is why KIU needs an "n" also.
In this case, I rewrite the second sentence :

En la jxurnalo oni anoncis TIUN domon.
As "anonci" is a transitive verb, then TIU has to
be written with N --> TIUN.

From this I assume that KIU has to take an "n"
--> KIUN.

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