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Word-play and back-formations

de Bruso, 16 novembre 2013

Messages : 26

Langue: English

orthohawk (Voir le profil) 28 novembre 2013 14:46:45

cFlat7:Kaŝperanto, I don't know if there is such a list but I have collected some of the ones I have come across and/or invented for amusement. e.g. here are a few:

-form/et/i -- for/met/i (see Psalm 131:2)

-agit/i -- ag/it/i

-maleolo = ankle
-eolo = wrist(?)

-tabureto = stool
-taburo = big stool(?)

-ven/kant/o -- venk/ant/o

-mark/ot/o -- mar/kot/o

-al/tiri -- alt/iri

-ferm/ebla -- fer/mebla (see 1 Regxoj 6:4)

etc.
Papavo - poppy; pap/avo - the pope's grandfather.

Tempodivalse (Voir le profil) 28 novembre 2013 16:31:34

Or a three-way ambiguity: cxiamulo

cxiam-ulo = a "regular", someone who visits some establishment regularly

cxia mulo = every kind of mule

cxi am-ulo = this lover

Of course, the ambiguity can only arise in speech; in writing we would use spaces to indicate what's going on.

But as sudanglo says, most of these potentially ambiguous words never use more than one sense; the other is normally silly or meaningless. I can't imagine anyone parsing "fiakro" as "fi-akro", for instance.

Bastono/bas-tono, al-tiri/alt-iri, and ferm-eblo/fer-meblo are the only ones where confusion seems realistically possible. But ambiguity can be avoided by changing the word: bas-tono -> basotono, alten iri, fera meblo/feromeblo.

cFlat7 (Voir le profil) 29 novembre 2013 01:06:30

sudanglo:In practice I think the pronunciations of am-uzi and or-doni would not be identical those of amuzi and ordoni. There would be a secondary stress on the first syllable to indicate how the word should be parsed. However those words in the unusual parsing are improbable outside jocular use.
I don't recall reading/hearing about a secondary stress. I've always understood Esperanto had one simple rule for stress: second last syllable. Is other stresses something that has somehow become accepted in practice or something?

sudanglo (Voir le profil) 29 novembre 2013 13:30:18

It is just a question of ensuring comprehensibility cFLat. It is perfectly natural with uncommon compounds to show the parsing with your voice.

I think it even may occur with compounds that are relatively well known.

Ask a spertulo to pronounce etburĝa and then etikedo or etna. I think you might hear a difference in the first syllable stressing. Maybe even also with grandanima and grandioza.

Try it out.

kaŝperanto (Voir le profil) 29 novembre 2013 18:18:46

Tempodivalse:Or a three-way ambiguity: cxiamulo

cxiam-ulo = a "regular", someone who visits some establishment regularly

cxia mulo = every kind of mule

cxi am-ulo = this lover

Of course, the ambiguity can only arise in speech; in writing we would use spaces to indicate what's going on.

But as sudanglo says, most of these potentially ambiguous words never use more than one sense; the other is normally silly or meaningless. I can't imagine anyone parsing "fiakro" as "fi-akro", for instance.

Bastono/bas-tono, al-tiri/alt-iri, and ferm-eblo/fer-meblo are the only ones where confusion seems realistically possible. But ambiguity can be avoided by changing the word: bas-tono -> basotono, alten iri, fera meblo/feromeblo.
I seem to recall reading that the use of the vowel in constructed words is exactly for such ambiguous situations (as well as for pronounceability).

I wasn't aware of "fiakro" for a carriage, as "kaleŝo" is much more common (I learned from very old books okulumo.gif ).

cFlat7 (Voir le profil) 13 décembre 2013 13:44:39

I just came across:

pupil/o --> pup/il/o

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