robbkvasnak:

spreecamper:

kaŝperanto:I think I understand, and possibly the word you seek is "subdue".

Yes, you're right. That word does meet it.

with "meet" do you mean "hit"? as in "das Wort trifft es"? Or do you mean "comes close to"?

Well, according to dict.leo.org 'subdue so.' means 'jmdn. bändigen'. Thats more 'comes close to'. I wanna point to that action which is applied to instructor Rhon at the video I already posted before. Rhon named it 'bear hug with arms pinned' what regarding Lernu-forum matter I did mean metaphoric but netherless same 'action pictures' like action done to Rhon I had in mind with hint 'to make somebody quietly' before. See below.

Probably 'to de-escalate', in German also 'deeskalieren', hits it better.

erinja:

orthohawk:

spreecamper:Wow. If that features will be implemented into next Lernu system that very fast would make quietly some flame wars.

Why? that would just mean the flamers all get put on ignore by everyone and, voila! the problem is taken care of automatically.

I'm pretty sure that's what spreecamper meant when he said "make quietly". That is, to stop the flame wars because no one is reading them.

RiotNrrd:When there's a catfight in my backyard, I don't puzzle out who started what; I turn the hose on them both. The only downside is to the cats, whose fighting is disturbing me, so why not? They don't fight, there's no hose. They do fight, they get wet. It's an easy equation.

Ha, ha! But there excists subtle difference between serious claw-out fights and claw-in reflex movement training fights. I.e. some friend's cats mum and its daughter very often fight claw-in to 'communicate something each other'.

erinja:

Clarence666:You "can" ban yourself and come immediately back with a new name, or have and use multiple accounts at same time ... kiel traduki FYI: sockpuppetry sucks en EO?

Right.

But how to translate FYI: sockpuppetry sucks into Esperanto?

RiotNrrd:When there's a catfight in my backyard, I don't puzzle out who started what; I turn the hose on them both. The only downside is to the cats, whose fighting is disturbing me, so why not? They don't fight, there's no hose. They do fight, they get wet. It's an easy equation.

By that logic, the police should lock up both criminals and their victims. Just punish everyone involved, and we'll finally have peace and quiet. No messy investigations and trials to figure out who's guilty or innocent -- just so long as they stop "disturbing" everyone else.

voxclamantes:By that logic, the police should lock up both criminals and their victims. Just punish everyone involved, and we'll finally have peace and quiet. No messy investigations and trials to figure out who's guilty or innocent -- just so long as they stop "disturbing" everyone else.

If we were talking about criminals and victims, you might have a point. But we aren't. We're talking about a few loudmouths on an internet forum.

At any given point, the moderators sole decision is really "Does the forum benefit from having this person as a member, or are they just taking up a lot of time and energy for no good reason?" Once put in that context, things get easy to decide.

But even in your analogy, if the victims keep trying to exact vengeance themselves, then they do deserve to get locked up as well.

erinja:If no one responded to a rude post, it could never turn into a flame war. It would get reported and deleted.

This is the key point, I think. In my experience moderating IRC channels and wikis, trolls and troublemakers thrive on getting a rise out of people. If they are not successful in this task and are quashed with as little ado as possible, they will move on fairly quickly. It frustrates me when people, offended by an offensive or otherwise disruptive post, just end up responding in kind and increasing the tension (regardless of their intentions). "But he started it!" has long been a common excuse for all sorts of questionable or wrong actions. What we need to ask is: What is the point in reciprocating in kind to flamers?

voxclamantes:By that logic, the police should lock up both criminals and their victims. Just punish everyone involved, and we'll finally have peace and quiet. No messy investigations and trials to figure out who's guilty or innocent -- just so long as they stop "disturbing" everyone else.

An important difference between real-life aggresors/victims and online trolls is that, in the latter case, there is no benefit in reacting to the initial wrongdoer at all, other than quietly report the message to moderators. Getting involved in flame wars is quite unnecessary, participants only become part of the problem. This is in contrast to real world crime where there are good reasons (e.g., avoiding or minimising harm) to intervene more actively.

voxclamantes:

RiotNrrd:When there's a catfight in my backyard, I don't puzzle out who started what; I turn the hose on them both. The only downside is to the cats, whose fighting is disturbing me, so why not? They don't fight, there's no hose. They do fight, they get wet. It's an easy equation.

By that logic, the police should lock up both criminals and their victims. Just punish everyone involved, and we'll finally have peace and quiet. No messy investigations and trials to figure out who's guilty or innocent -- just so long as they stop "disturbing" everyone else.

The difference here is that the wrong has been done in one instant with the first bad post. If you throw rocks through my car windows in the middle of the night and I by some magic find out that you did it, it is definitely illegal for me to return the favor, no matter how justified I might feel (or be). Your absolute logic would have one side in a gang war be released of all charges for being the "victims" of whatever crime the police cought the other doing.

Now if you are in a dark alley coming at me or someone near me with a knife, then that is an entirely different situation (which would not end well for you ). I would be defending myself and others by stopping you with whatever force was necessary, thus preventing further crime and not exacting vengeance.
Writing an equally rude response post is exactly like exacting vengeance.

kaŝperanto:Now if you are in a dark alley coming at me or someone near me with a knife, then that is an entirely different situation (which would not end well for you )

Wow - my messages about this kind of childish bravado ("you would regret attacking me with a knife in a dark alley" ) have been deleted multiple times by the Lernu administrators. Why???

As someone who has actually been in numerous violent confrontations, I can tell you with absolute certainty that anyone who makes these kinds of boasts is (at best) kidding themselves and possibly encouraging other people to do the same.

I don't know what kind of Hollywood-type fantasies you have about your ability to survive a knife attack, but I can tell you from personal experience that no matter how well-trained or well-armed you are, being attacked by someone with a knife will scare the ... out of you. Whether it "ends well" or not is much more a factor of luck than whatever skills/training you think you have.

You're welcome to post whatever opinions you like, but please spare us the empty boasting.

voxclamantes:
Wow - my messages about this kind of childish bravado ("you would regret attacking me with a knife in a dark alley" ) have been deleted multiple times by the Lernu administrators. Why???

I don't speak for the admins, but I have read your deleted messages and found them rude. They were openly mocking another forum member. I understand your point about caution and avoiding bravado, it's a good advice, and I find it OK as long as it's phrased as a piece of general advice.

Duko:

voxclamantes:
Wow - my messages about this kind of childish bravado ("you would regret attacking me with a knife in a dark alley" ) have been deleted multiple times by the Lernu administrators. Why???

I don't speak for the admins, but I have read your deleted messages and found them rude. They were openly mocking another forum member. I understand your point about caution and avoiding bravado, it's a good advice, and I find it OK as long as it's phrased as a piece of general advice.

If openly mocking another forum member keeps them from someday doing something stupid that could cost them their life, then I won't apologize for that.

I've been invovled in two knife assaults (albeit many years ago now), and to this day I still remember them as vividly as if they happened yesterday -- in one case the attacker was mentally disturbed and you could clearly see the "crazy in her eyes." I've seen too many people who take (years) of taekwondo, etc. classes and then convince themselves that they're invincible, even when they're never been in a single street fight (and I've been in LOTS of those - have the scars, damaged joints, and floaters to prove it).

The last thing I need to is hear someone talk about how they're going to make some knife-wiedling attacker (or lunatic) "sorry" for attacking them in a dark alley -- better to stay out of dark alleys and away from people with knives.