kaŝperanto:I have never been to an esperanto meeting myself (quite hard to find one in the Midwest, or US in general if you're not in a big city), so I can't comment from experience.

Don't be so quick to write off the possibility of a meeting due to location. Informal meetings with a few people, even where there is no club, can be arranged more easily than you think, if everyone is willing to drive an hour or two to spend a day together doing Esperanto (eat a meal and visit a tourist site, maybe?). If I remember correctly, robbkvasnak started up a regional Esperanto group where one didn't previously exist, simply by contacting lernu users in a certain geographical region. There are more people than you think, if you make a little effort to get to know them!

Here's a search of lernu users who have at least a small level of account activity and indicated that they live in Indiana: [url=http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/uzantoj/listo.php?tipo=kk&snomo=&nomo=&retadreso=&lando=&urbo=indiana&lingvoj=&min=&maks=&sekso=&nivelo=&akt_de=1&akt_ghis=5&plng=®istrigho=0&konfirmo=&ordo=salutnomo&ek=Send]Indiana users[/url]. I suggest starting by contacting these users and asking where they live in Indiana; I'm aware it's a big state, and not everyone indicated their city (FYI if you want to meet up with more people, it's useful to put your city in your profile, so that other speakers can find you). I recommend also doing a search for names of towns that might be within an hour or two of driving distance from where you live, maybe also in surrounding states as appropriate. You may also try variants of city names; for example, if someone were searching for Esperantists in Cleveland, I'd try searching for Cleveland and also for some possible Esperanto variants (Klevlando, Klivlando, etc), and also simply for Ohio.

This advice goes also for anyone here who feels like they have no chance of attending an Esperanto meeting due to location. You might not have a local club, but lernu has a lot of users, and you might be surprised at who you might find, not so far away from you!

I second studying the Stoics!

sudanglo:

I don't see how it follows that a language needs to achieve absolute world domination in order to justify its body of literature, either translated or original

La fina venko is not world domination (absolute or otherwise). It is the widespread recognition of Esperanto as a rational and practical solution to the tower of babel problem, and a massive boost in the number of speakers.

And, by the way, you would not be able to enjoy the luxury of a hobbyist/raumist position without the history of the efforts and dedication of the finvenkistoj.

As to what the effects will be precisely of the advances in machine translation it is difficult to say. But given the decline in foreign language learning that is likely to follow, it might just strengthen Esperanto's position.

No doubt the finvenkistoj will try to insure that Esperanto is one of the language choices on the pocket translators.

Well, yes, it was in line with many of the other 19th-century utopian doctrines, like communism and fascism (and Whiggish liberalism), the idea that if only we could all speak the same language, all would be well. It's similar to the idea of world government, which Bertrand Russell, someone whom I admire greatly, naively believed in. But the modern world is far too complicated for simple solutions. (Unless you're going to advocate a "de-complexification" of human institutions, which I personally would, as that's the only way you could possibly produce anything approaching genuine democracy or freedom. But even then you still have the very big problem of how to get there.)

I don't know if hobbyist is supposed to sound pejorative, but I doubt that many of us are involved with Esperanto professionally, so that label applies to most of us. None of us gets paid to be here (though if anyone does, let me know, I want to know why I'm missing out)!

Anyway, I don't have a problem with anyone advocating the universal take-up of Esperanto as a solution to the world's ills, I just don't believe in that particular creed. I think Esperanto is a useful language for anyone who wants to communicate with people from all over the world on a more equal basis and to engage with the international culture that's already been created as well as other cultures, and would be happy to encourage others on that basis, I just don't think that the world would necessarily be any better simply because everyone spoke Esperanto (in fact, having a single language could even make it easier for those with power to exert control: for example, jobs could more easily be outsourced to wherever labour costs were currently lowest).

erinja:

kaŝperanto:I have never been to an esperanto meeting myself (quite hard to find one in the Midwest, or US in general if you're not in a big city), so I can't comment from experience.

Don't be so quick to write off the possibility of a meeting due to location. Informal meetings with a few people, even where there is no club, can be arranged more easily than you think, if everyone is willing to drive an hour or two to spend a day together doing Esperanto (eat a meal and visit a tourist site, maybe?). If I remember correctly, robbkvasnak started up a regional Esperanto group where one didn't previously exist, simply by contacting lernu users in a certain geographical region. There are more people than you think, if you make a little effort to get to know them!

Here's a search of lernu users who have at least a small level of account activity and indicated that they live in Indiana: [url=http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/uzantoj/listo.php?tipo=kk&snomo=&nomo=&retadreso=&lando=&urbo=indiana&lingvoj=&min=&maks=&sekso=&nivelo=&akt_de=1&akt_ghis=5&plng=®istrigho=0&konfirmo=&ordo=salutnomo&ek=Send]Indiana users[/url]. I suggest starting by contacting these users and asking where they live in Indiana; I'm aware it's a big state, and not everyone indicated their city (FYI if you want to meet up with more people, it's useful to put your city in your profile, so that other speakers can find you). I recommend also doing a search for names of towns that might be within an hour or two of driving distance from where you live, maybe also in surrounding states as appropriate. You may also try variants of city names; for example, if someone were searching for Esperantists in Cleveland, I'd try searching for Cleveland and also for some possible Esperanto variants (Klevlando, Klivlando, etc), and also simply for Ohio.

This advice goes also for anyone here who feels like they have no chance of attending an Esperanto meeting due to location. You might not have a local club, but lernu has a lot of users, and you might be surprised at who you might find, not so far away from you!

Indeed I should try to get something going in my area, but time is one fickle...

I assume that the content you attempted to link was dynamic, because I get "Sorry, your search returned no results". Either that or I am indeed the only Esperantist in Indiana

At any rate, I intend to attend the UEK either this year or next.

Sorry, I did copy and paste it again into my browser to see if it worked and it did, but I guess it was dynamic. Go to the user search page and search for "indiana" (no quotes) in the city/state box, and under user activity level, choose "small" on the low end (this is to exclude users who opened an account in 2007 and haven't been back since -- presumably they are no longer active and not interested in meeting).

When you say UEK, do you mean UK? UK is an interesting event but actually I recommend attending a smaller Esperanto event as your first one unless you are extroverted and make friends super easily. UK is a huge event and there's a ton of stuff going on, but if you come in as a beginner, not knowing anyone, it's easy to get lost in the crowd; it's hard to find your niche unless you're comfortable with being relatively aggressive about meeting new people. I generally recommend smaller events for beginners. It's easier for people to recognize that you're new and befriend you and help you along, particularly if you aren't an extrovert (I'm not, and I don't find it easy to go up to people I don't know and talk to them).

I ran into a guy I know slightly, at UK in Copenhagen. He told me he was having a horrible time, felt that people were snobbish and unfriendly, and a couple of other complaints that I've since forgotten. It wasn't my experience at all. But I knew a lot more people than he did, I had travelled to UK with a friend and I had my group of friends to hang out with. I met lots more people there -- friends of friends etc, so it was easy. His experience turned out ok by the end but it took him a few days of misery before he made some friends to hang around with. It's just easier to get oriented and meet people in smaller events. At a small event, people notice that you're eating alone and they come and sit with you. In a large event, people are so excited to see the friends that they haven't seen in a year or more, and there are just so many people around, that somehow it escapes people's notice that not everyone has a group to spend time with.

erinja:Sorry, I did copy and paste it again into my browser to see if it worked and it did, but I guess it was dynamic. Go to the user search page and search for "indiana" (no quotes) in the city/state box, and under user activity level, choose "small" on the low end (this is to exclude users who opened an account in 2007 and haven't been back since -- presumably they are no longer active and not interested in meeting).

When you say UEK, do you mean UK? UK is an interesting event but actually I recommend attending a smaller Esperanto event as your first one unless you are extroverted and make friends super easily. UK is a huge event and there's a ton of stuff going on, but if you come in as a beginner, not knowing anyone, it's easy to get lost in the crowd; it's hard to find your niche unless you're comfortable with being relatively aggressive about meeting new people. I generally recommend smaller events for beginners. It's easier for people to recognize that you're new and befriend you and help you along, particularly if you aren't an extrovert (I'm not, and I don't find it easy to go up to people I don't know and talk to them).

I ran into a guy I know slightly, at UK in Copenhagen. He told me he was having a horrible time, felt that people were snobbish and unfriendly, and a couple of other complaints that I've since forgotten. It wasn't my experience at all. But I knew a lot more people than he did, I had travelled to UK with a friend and I had my group of friends to hang out with. I met lots more people there -- friends of friends etc, so it was easy. His experience turned out ok by the end but it took him a few days of misery before he made some friends to hang around with. It's just easier to get oriented and meet people in smaller events. At a small event, people notice that you're eating alone and they come and sit with you. In a large event, people are so excited to see the friends that they haven't seen in a year or more, and there are just so many people around, that somehow it escapes people's notice that not everyone has a group to spend time with.

Yes, I meant UK (guess I was mixing it with UEA). At least there are seven of us, so I'm the only Hoosier-Esperantist.
I am also fairly introverted, so I will take this advice into consideration. Is there a decent list somewhere of events in the US that would meet your definition of smaller? I haven't actually done too much looking into this; I'm more setting a goal for myself to attend some kind of actual meeting to justify learning this language.

Basically anything in the US would meet my definition of "smaller". This year's US national convention will take place in Canada, as a joint event with the Canadian Esperanto association, in Victoria, BC. That'll be next summer. If you feel like travelling further abroad, I recommend Summer Esperanto Study in Slovakia. It's sort of a combination of a week of courses at different levels, plus multiple concerts, excursions and fun activities. It is sort of like attending a course and an Esperanto youth convention at the same time. Based on your profile, you're pretty much the perfect age for it. It's a pretty cheap event, once you've paid the airfare to Slovakia.

If you aren't interested in doing a course, but a convention only, then a lot depends on how far you want to travel, how long an event, and what time of year. There is a big weeklong new years' thing in Poland or Germany every year (now called JES, Junulara Esperanto-Semajno, it's the old "IS"); this year it's in Poland but time is probably short to attend. There's a weeklong youth thing around Eastertime in Italy ('internacia junulara festivalo', IJF), and a summer week-long youth thing in Hungary ('internacia junulara semajno', IJS), usually in August, I think. Those each get maybe 100-200 people. But if you feel a little insecure about your Esperanto level, I think attending something like SES, that has both a course and also convention-type events, is a bit less threatening, since your day is more structured, and your class provides an easy way to meet people. SES is also 200+ people, but with the structure provided by classes, it's easier to find your niche. Also, SES attracts a lot of people who are attending their very first Esperanto event -- about half of the participants, if things have remained the same for the last few years. That means that lots of people there don't know anyone and are actively looking for new friends. It makes it an easier environment for meeting people, than an event where people have their set group of friends that they know from other events and aren't actively looking to meet someone new.

In the US, there's a weekend thing on Columbus Day weekend (ARE, auxtuna renkontigxo esperantista) in upstate New York. I attended for many years, it's about 30-50 people, pretty small and friendly. But it's a long way to travel from Indiana for a single weekend.

erinja:Basically anything in the US would meet my definition of "smaller". This year's US national convention will take place in Canada, as a joint event with the Canadian Esperanto association, in Victoria, BC. That'll be next summer. If you feel like travelling further abroad, I recommend Summer Esperanto Study in Slovakia. It's sort of a combination of a week of courses at different levels, plus multiple concerts, excursions and fun activities. It is sort of like attending a course and an Esperanto youth convention at the same time. Based on your profile, you're pretty much the perfect age for it. It's a pretty cheap event, once you've paid the airfare to Slovakia.
...

Thank you, from what you say the SES sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. The costs are very reasonable, and my favorite band, La Perdita Generacio, is supposed to be there, so that is a big plus. I also have yet to take any type of class apart from reading a few hundred-plus year old books, so I'm sure I'll learn something new. Slovakia is also an interesting place that I know nothing about.

I did think about the JES this year, but I thought it would be a bit too soon for me to fully enjoy. I have been somewhat active in learning Esperanto for a couple years now, but I didn't really start putting significant effort into it until this year. Most of my learning has been through reading and through using these forums.
I think I would be able to hold a decent conversation right now, but without a vortaro I find it difficult sometimes to fully express myself (or to recall words that I know). At any rate I intend to greatly increase my vocabulary and speaking/listening skills in the coming months.

Note that the SES information you're looking at is probably last year's; they don't seem to have announced location and cost for next year yet, but it should be similar. La Perdita Generacio has played SES more than once, so with any luck, they'll be playing when you attend, too!

I think you will be surprised at how fast your Esperanto will progress once you're in an environment where you're immersed. Also, Esperanto speakers tend to be very patient and forgiving as you haltingly try to put your ideas into a coherent sentence. My first Esperanto event was a local youth weekend, and my Esperanto was pretty bad (ok written, terrible spoken), but I had a great time, even though I didn't understand every single thing that was going on.

I don't know if hobbyist is supposed to sound pejorative

The distinction is not between amateur and professional, but between learning Esperanto as one might learn, say, Klingon (this clearly is just a hobby) and supporting Esperanto as something more serious.

Of course, even when the fina venko comes there will still only be a small percentage of Esperanto speakers, since many will still have no need to communicate with someone of a different mother tongue, as is the case now.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with anyone advocating the universal take-up of Esperanto as a solution to the world's ills, I just don't believe in that particular creed

And nor do finvenkistoj, who simply see the language as one day on a much greater scale facilitating international communication (as a second language learnt in adulthood).

But if Esperanto is to play its role then it must be both up to the job and preserve the qualities that make it suitable.

The trouble with Raŭmismo is that is a bit of an emotional and intellectual cul-de-sac. It provides little in the way of motivation for developing the language and preserving discipline in that development. Why would it matter to a Raŭmist what the Esperanto is for this or that, or what are the particular implications of a certain sentence, if it is never going to be used seriously in commerce, in diplomacy, in legal disputes or in science (just to pick out a few fields)?