A litany of other questions
door ASCarroll, 1 mei 2014
Berichten: 228
Taal: English
dtgallagher (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 01:46:47
AllenHartwell (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 02:01:06
makis:Seriously, has no one noticed a strange coincidence between the timing of the departure of the original poster and the arrival of a new, adamant and abrasive komencanto that has very strong feelings towards Esperanto with a bent towards Fundamento fundamentalism?I've explained why I agree with the majority of Esperantists before. I don't see why you and nornen/morfran (both of whom post after the other and have the same opinions I notice) feel the need to resort to ad hominem fallacies and throw around words like "fascist" and "adamant" when literally all I'm doing is agreeing with that common opinion expressed by almost every other spertulo on this thread and every thread like it I've seen so far. And then tell me I'm the impolite one for being tired of seeing "reform" proposals all over the place. You have to admit it's a little hypocritical.
AllenHartwell (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 05:07:02
morfran:If you’re going to use terms like “linguistic purity” and “degenerate Esperanto” in your kampf, (which seem calculated to sound like “racial purity” and “degenerate art”), you can hardly claim to be bruised by comparisons with fascism.You imply that I'm a Nazi. I'm quite obviously an enthusiastic supporter of a language and associated movement created by a Jewish man to facilitate homarismo and world peace. I'm just going to let the absurdity of this stand on its own...
And as you’re the leading poster in authoritarian calls to banish all those who displease you, at which other hominem should I throw my fallacies?
morfran:As noted above, that’s not all you’re doing.I'm sure I could copy parts of statements you've made and present them without any kind of context as well. I'm not going to do this.
morfran:For it to be hypocritical, I, too, would have to have a list of people that I want banished for speaking Esperanto in a way that I’ve read is improper. But I’m not out to banish anyone — not even you.As noted above, that's not actually what I said. I was talking about how it might be a good idea to be proactive in keeping reformists like the OP off these boards. I believe it was already mentioned that they are a school meant to teach normative, standard, vanilla Esperanto as it's always been used by the general community. Innovations and deviations and forms absent from the built-in dictionary are not conducive to mastering the language that's actually used.
In fact, especially you.
morfran (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 06:22:57
AllenHartwell:Koko is the same thing as virkoko. A hen is kokino. A generic chicken is kokulo. That's clearly how Zamenhof used it. That's how he intended it to be used. Using it differently essentially creates an Esperantido.This is the problem with parroting the spertulaĵoj you read in a forum, or claiming to know how Zamenhof used or meant something when you don’t: Go to [url=tekstaro.com]tekstaro.com[/url] and search for “kokulo” (or “patrulo”, if you like); how many trafoj pop up?
If the answer is 0 (and it is), then your use of "kokulo" to mean "chicken" makes you the reformist — and under the martial law you’re so keen to implement, it’s you who should be flushed out of the forum in an act of linguistic hygiene.
novatago (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 07:35:10
erinja:Seriously, enough with the talk of "feminazis". It's insulting.When I wrote the message I didn't see the rest of the conversation (and even after write it, I read only a part of a few messages) I only wanted to answer that part of that message and finish taking part in this thread because in this moment I'm tired of lies and senseless arguments which can not refute facts. But anyway, some people is talking again and again about sexism (maybe not collectives but individuals do, who really -wrongly- believe that) in esperanto. That's also insulting, and they are no stopping.
Ĝis, Novatago.
AllenHartwell (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 07:57:24
coderiferous (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 08:15:18
AllenHartwell:The neuter is created with -ul. The feminine is created with -in.Sorry, I haven't read almost any of this thread, and I'm not at all involved with it, but -ul- does not specify neuter (unless I have some grave misunderstanding), it specifies a person, laŭ la vortaro. So I would say kokulo isn't a gender-neutral word for chicken, but rather a chickenly (cowardly) person or something.
Fenris_kcf (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 08:21:01
AllenHartwell:The neuter is created with -ul.Meeerp! No, it is not, sir!
Where did you pick that one up?
AllenHartwell:Just like any other feature of Esperanto, it's simply not up for debate or revision. The argument over it will change nothing.A language must change in order to survive. Keeping it static on all costs, will only make it die earlier.
Man, how can someone who's interested in Esperanto treat a language like something holy and immutable? If all people were to share such an attitude, not a single constructed language would exist.
Kirilo81 (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 08:49:23
Fenris_kcf:A language must change in order to survive.From the fact that "living" languages change one cannot conclude that a language must change in all of its aspect in order to survive.
Of course the lexicon must be open to be able to express new notion, but -and I say this as a linguist specialized in language change- there is not a single reason for the grammar and especially the morphology to change. Not one.
novatago (Profiel tonen) 15 mei 2014 12:32:50
coderiferous:Read the last part in http://bertilow.com/pmeg/vortfarado/afiksoj/sufiks... under the title: Ĉu UL estas neŭtra aŭ vira?.AllenHartwell:The neuter is created with -ul. The feminine is created with -in.Sorry, I haven't read almost any of this thread, and I'm not at all involved with it, but -ul- does not specify neuter (unless I have some grave misunderstanding),
Ĝis, Novatago.