AllenHartwell:

Esperanto: live and love it, or leav..

Two problems with giving people an ultimatum such as this:
Some will be intimidated into doing just that, leaving, and the language loses another potential speaker.
Many others will choose option 3),stay and argue, simply because they do not appreciate heavy handed attempts to tell them how to behave.

jean-luc:Why is posxtelefono bad ?

It's not bad, just unfamiliar to some, and therefore possibly needing explanation.

It is also a pointless neologism. It may be in widespread use in some small community or other but I'm quite sure I've never once heard of it until now. There is simply no need for an opaque construction that needs explaining when there's already an easily comprehensible form in portebla telefono. That much has already been said. The more effortlessly and effectively we can understand each other, the more we follow the spirit and intention behind the language and why it was created. See my point earlier about an internationally understood language being rendered pointless if everyone decides to create twenty different branches off it.

AllenHartwell:[Poŝtelefono] is also a pointless neologism.

Perhaps you're too young to remember, but there's a difference between a "portable phone" and a cell phone.

AllenHartwell:It may be in widespread use in some small community or other but I'm quite sure I've never once heard of it until now.

It's the default word in Wells, the PIV, and [url=http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poŝtelefono]Wikipedia[/url]. As always, measuring the worth of a word by what a beginner has heard of is probably not a good idea.

AllenHartwell:There is simply no need for an opaque construction that needs explaining when there's already an easily comprehensible form in portebla telefono.

"Pocket" is regularly used as a prefix for a number of things in Esperanto to denote portability (watches, dictionaries, lamps, i.e. flashlights), just as it is in English. Its opacity is directly proportional to one's unfamiliarity with the language.

AllenHartwell:See my point earlier about an internationally understood language being rendered pointless if everyone decides to create twenty different branches off it.

We've seen it. Your point tends to be undermined, however, by your cavernous lack of knowledge in the subject.

Bemused:Many others will choose option 3),stay and argue, simply because they do not appreciate heavy handed attempts to tell them how to behave.

I'm ordering a T-shirt with a big 3 on it to wear when I read these threads.

I'm not telling anyone how to behave. I'm expounding on my opinion regarding a change to a language that's been hard enough to learn as it is. I hoped that joining would help me learn and get me in contact with other orthodox speakers. The first thread I see is some guy talking about making up his own Esperantido to use instead and getting support from several other beginners. This is why I otherwise mostly just lurk the upper boards, use the dictionary and lessons, and study the Esperanto of the actual spertuloj.

I'm mostly losing interest in this debate. It's obvious that you're going to try to change everything regardless of any appeals to reason or even preserving the utility of the language itself. Do what you want. I'm more interested in reading, listening to, and speaking the standard Esperanto that people actually use.

AllenHartwell:I’m not telling anyone how to behave.

In holding forth on what should and shouldn’t be permitted in the language, who should and shouldn’t be allowed to post in the forums, and so on, you’ve done little else but tell us how to behave since you got here.

AllenHartwell:The first thread I see is some guy talking about making up his own Esperantido to use instead and getting support from several other beginners.

The same can be said of you and Novatago and that special cant you two have created with the repurposing of -ul-.

AllenHartwell:I'm more interested in reading, listening to, and speaking the standard Esperanto that people actually use.

Wish that were true. But you just got through decrying a word that people actually use, as well as a construction with poŝ- that dates back to the Fundamenta Krestomatio de la Lingvo Esperanto. For all your exaltation of all things fundamenta and denunciation of all things neologistic, you’ve shown time and time again that you don’t really know one from the other.

AllenHartwell:If we allow boviĉo to replace the Fundamenta bovo and the now necessary virbovo, then why not allow malidiĉo to replace patro entirely?

Because (practically) nobody wants that. (Almost) nobody is clammoring to throw out "patro"; it is well-enshrined in use and accepted as the word for "father". The same is not true of "bovo". You're creating a slippery slope where there isn't one.

In any case, you needn't worry that our arguments (or yours) are likely to affect the future of Esperanto. The Akademio themselves could announce tomorrow "Bone, aŭskultu, ni ne plu diru "patro"," and I'd be very surprised if there were so much as a burp in the word's usage.

That's what was previously discussed: doubling the family roots to create parallel words of the exact same meaning. If gxenitoro would work, then so would malido. It's no different in principle than degendering inherently gendered words like bovo, onklo, or nimfo.

I do agree about usage though. The Esperanto community will reject any reckless change like that. It always has, which is a primary reason that it's still used, unlike Ido and Volapuk. The vast majority understand that linguistic conservatism is literally how we conserve and protect the language from falling into disuse like the other conIALs..

AllenHartwell:That's what was previously discussed: doubling the family roots to create parallel words of the exact same meaning. If gxenitoro would work, then so would malido. It's no different in principle than degendering inherently gendered words like bovo, onklo, or nimfo.

You say you’ve seen different proposed words for “parent” here and there — ĝenitoro, genitoro, parento — all of which have something in common: they look like existing Romance words. So far as I’ve seen, you’re the only one proposing, even if not seriously, anything like malido, so the malido Apocalypse you’re warning us of has no basis in anything approaching reality.

AllenHartwell:The Esperanto community will reject any reckless change like that ... The vast majority understand that linguistic conservatism is literally how we conserve and protect the language from falling into disuse like the other conIALs..

Once again, that thing you have your finger on is not the pulse of the Esperanto community:

Wikipedia:Not all of these [usually masculine] words are stably masculine. Native English speakers, among others, tend to treat kuzo (a cousin) and amiko (a friend) as gender-neutral, and nepo (a grandson/grandchild), bubo (a brat), and koko (a rooster/chicken) are often ambiguous as well. Once such a word is used ambiguously by a significant number of speakers or writers, it can no longer be assumed to be masculine. Language guides suggest using all ambiguous words neutrally, and many people find this the least confusing approach—and so the ranks of masculine words gradually dwindle.

The upside of this — for you, at least — as that there may never be a need for separate epicene words for kinship relationships and such. The downside, of course, is that the specter of degenderized masculine words might be happening sooner than you think.