A litany of other questions
dari ASCarroll, 1 Mei 2014
Pesan: 228
Bahasa: English
AllenHartwell (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 00.28.02
How is this system any more regular or natural than the one Zamenhof chose? I just don't understand the point of making common mistakes official, especially when what we have now works just fine without tinkering and trying to change everything.
Corrected for the spelling of mia and mother instead of father. I haven't been up too long. Lo siento for the three errors.
AllenHartwell (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 00.34.27
Miaj gefratoj estas ridanta.
Miaj gefratiĉinojoj ridantas.
Mia virrano saltis sur la tablon.
Mia iĉa virrano estas saltintas onto al la tablonon.
Mia kuzo estas viro.
Mia kuziĉo estas viriĉo.
morfran (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 00.45.32
AllenHartwell:So calling your granddaughter "mea nepo" isn't an error because many poorly taught beginners wouldn't think it to be one?Well, not every beginner can master the language the way you clearly have in so short a time.
But if an Esperantist said mea nepo in reference to a granddaughter, it’d be wrong mostly because the word is mia, not mea.
AllenHartwell:And yet somehow "mea patro" for your father is wrong.Not sure how you concluded that. Perhaps that would be true in the malido Apocalypse you made up.
AllenHartwell:How is this system any more regular or natural than the one Zamenhof chose?We’ve been through this.
AllenHartwell:I just don't understand the point of making common mistakes official, especially when what we have now works just fine without tinkering and trying to change everything.It’s like with the ”-ess” and “-man” suffixes in English. As more people stop looking at the world through the lens where everything is male by default, so fewer people use “-ess” and “-man”. Doesn’t mean they’re using the language wrong. It means the culture is changing, and the language, as a tool of that culture, is changing with it.
morfran (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 00.49.43
AllenHartwell:I guess what I'm trying to say is, which makes more sense? ... Miaj gefraticxinojoj ridantas ... Mia ranicxo estas saltintas onto al la tablonon./facepalm
AllenHartwell (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 00.56.47
morfran:We’ve been through this.I previously refuted the idea of adding a parallel root for each existing male root. Now we've veered off into some strange land where your frato could reasonably be your sister.
morfran:It’s like with the ”-ess” and “-man” suffixes in English. As more people stop looking at the world through the lens where everything is male by default, so fewer people use “-ess” and “-man”. Doesn’t mean they’re using the language wrong. It means the culture is changing, and the language, as a tool of that culture, is changing with it.I could be wrong, but I seem to recall a primary reason for the existence of the language being cross cultural communication. A tool for everyone to understand and communicate with one another in the same way regardless of ethnic, cultural, or linguistic background. Changing it so that anyone may speak any way and still expect to be understood will not further this goal. One person might use patro to mean strictly their father, while another might use it as an epicene word, while a third might believe that it has an inherently feminine meaning, while yet another conflates it with patrino, bopatro, and bopatrino. How will any of the three know the meaning of the other two for certain? And then say a genitoristo comes along and starts referring to their gegenitoroj. The very purpose of the language is lost. They might as well be speaking broken English at that point.
morfran:If we're going to be changing the base rules to suit our personal preferences anyway, we might as well go whole hog on it. If I can use pareĉjo for my dad, then why can't I use onto x-onon for sur x-on? It's not like language is for making yourself understood. It's obviously for political activism through mangling a made up language.AllenHartwell:I guess what I'm trying to say is, which makes more sense? ... Miaj gefraticxinojoj ridantas ... Mia ranicxo estas saltintas onto al la tablonon./facepalm
morfran (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 01.24.33
AllenHartwell:Changing it so that anyone may speak any way and still expect to be understood will not further this goal.Between the malido Apocalypse, made-up self-contradictory words, and this scenario, you seem intent on arguing against things that aren’t actually happening or being sought. This makes your posts less than pointless.
AllenHartwell:It's obviously for political activism through mangling a made up language.Unless you’re the sort of person who regularly uses words like “Jewess” and “Negress” — which were once the “proper” words to indicate Jewish and black women — then by your own criteria, you’re a political activist, too, going “whole hog” on the English language to suit your fadist sensibilities.
AllenHartwell (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 01.48.20
morfran:Unless you’re the sort of person who regularly uses words like “Jewess” and “Negress” — which were once the “proper” words to indicate Jewish and black women — then by your own criteria, you’re a political activist, too, going “whole hog” on the English language to suit your fadist sensibilities.I don't know. I'd put a small amount of money down that the number of English speakers who call Jewish women Jewess is about as low as the number of Esperanto speakers who talk about their patro and patricxo.
Rejsi (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 02.45.01
AllenHartwell:I guess what I'm trying to say is, which makes more sense? The standard Esperanto, or the Reformed Esperanto?I have no idea what you're trying to prove with this post, but it's not correct at all. Are you just making up random things on the spot? By Reformed Esperanto, I'll assume you mean only the gender reforms, and not the actual Reformed Esperanto, which is totally different.
Miaj gefratoj estas ridantaj.The gender reformed Esperanto version would be "miaj fratoj ridas" ("miaj fratoj estas ridantaj").
Miaj gefratiĉinojoj ridantas.
Mia virrano saltis sur la tablon.The gender reformed Esperanto version would be "mia raniĉo saltis sur la tablon."
Mia iĉa virrano estas saltintas onto al la tablonon.
Mia kuzo estas viro.The sentence is redundant in gender reformed Esperanto.
Mia kuziĉo estas viriĉo.
makis (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 02.45.40
AllenHartwell (Tunjukkan profil) 29 Mei 2014 04.37.29