You can, of course, speak any way you like. Absolutely no one can make you stop using na, or ri, or gi, or whatever, if you are dead set on using one or more of them.

The main reason you will find resistance to such nonstandard forms here - and you will encounter resistance - is because Lernu is an informal online school dedicated to teaching standardized, vanilla Esperanto. For any particular proposed new Esperanto element, the global Esperanto community needs to adopt it BEFORE Lernu will, or even can, really, support it. Whatever it is, it needs to be widespread and generally accepted. Globally standard. Lernu isn't first to adopt; Lernu is last to adopt. It has to be. The kind of Esperanto a teaching site needs to teach has to be stable and commonly accepted.

You're entirely free to go ahead and speak whatever experimental version of Esperanto appeals to you. But if you do it here, on this site, you are implying to beginners who don't know any better that you are speaking standard Esperanto. That does them a disservice, as you would not be doing any such thing. Any usage other than ordinary Esperanto, here, sets a bad example from a teaching perspective. New students may not be interested in learning your own personal dialect, but may end up wasting their time learning it anyway, since how are they to know? Since all that does is confuse students, the more experienced members here are naturally resistant to it.

I hardly think that is something to indict us over. To me, taking a strongly conservative approach to the language is fundamental to the purpose of this site.

I think RiotNrrd explained the resistance to such forms on lernu well, though I'm still confused by the degree of outright hostility and the notion that ASCarroll was in any way "annoying" in his presentation. I certainly hope, AS, that you won't take novatago's advice and quit. If you're interested enough to be this invested in the potentials and flaws of the language, I hope you'll spend the time to reach a sufficient level of proficiency and become involved enough in the speech community to see how the issues you've highlighted play out on a wider perspective.

I'm not sure if anyone specifically pointed it out to you yet, but I find the PIV to be the most useful Esperanto dictionary. It's not bilingual, but if you're looking for root and transitivity you already know what word you're looking for anyway.

"You can still learn it, and use it, but you just can't not do whatever you want, the same you can't with any other language."

Sure he can, same as he can in any other language. And we are free to ignore, raise an eyebrow at, or be drawn to his dialect. What are you afraid of - that other people will think his Esperanto is standard? I hope not many people are using the lernu forums as their primary source of exemplary linguistic style.

"My solution is basically just to add piĉo to the list of words I'd rather not acknowledge/use."

I must, however, fault you on this - this is not a solution; if you say nepiĉo, essentially all fluent speakers will hear ne piĉo. You might as well try to introduce the word "nofuk" in English - might have the most useful meaning imaginable, but nobody's going to use it.

Eltwish:

"You can still learn it, and use it, but you just can't not do whatever you want, the same you can't with any other language."

Sure he can, same as he can in any other language. And we are free to ignore, raise an eyebrow at, or be drawn to his dialect.

It would be a minor issue if the only likely reactions were ignoring, raising an eyebrow, or being drawn to it. Polite actions in the real would would likely include being asked constantly why you talk that way, and spending more time explaining your dialect than being involved in productive and interesting conversations (unless your idea of a great time is to talk about how you talk, incessantly). The rude actions in the real world would almost certainly include people imitating you behind your back to make fun of how you talk "Did you hear the world he uses for nephew? LOL, "Venu, mia kara nepiĉo!" ). Most but not all Esperanto speakers have the minimum social graces not to make fun of you to your face for it. One or two of these wouldn't be too remarkable, on the level of "Oh yeah I used to know a guy who used "far", but a whole list of them -- people would probably be talking about you. Not sure if that's the kind of attention you want to draw, but as you are free to talk how you want, others are also free to talk about what they want. It's not polite but it's the way of things.

Eltwish:... though I'm still confused by the degree of outright hostility...

Try and appreciate the passion for the language, as it is, that lies behind it, and then try to let it go.

These are not new subjects. The faces change, but the proposals remain. After a while, these topics can be tiring to long-time speakers, who can forget that the beginners raising these issues haven't yet heard them to death, whereas old timers not only have, we really have. So, while it probably ought to be reined in, the apparent hostility isn't really coming from a bad place, it's just maybe coming out a little... strongly. What underlies it probably isn't as negative as it might seem at first blush. Just not expressed well.

erinja:In other news, I think you missed a couple of neologisms from your list. If you want to be annoyingly radical in your use of Esperanto,

Or he can just start using "ci" to address one person, right? (OK, it's not a neologism, but still)

Eltwish:

"You can still learn it, and use it, but you just can't not do whatever you want, the same you can't with any other language."

Sure he can, same as he can in any other language. And we are free to ignore, raise an eyebrow at, or be drawn to his dialect. What are you afraid of - that other people will think his Esperanto is standard? I hope not many people are using the lernu forums as their primary source of exemplary linguistic style.

I think you miss the point that it's not a thing you just can ignore. What I'm afraid for is the many consequences of ignore:

—not to have esperanto at all just because I rather ignore people misunderstanding the whole affair. There are too much wrong information out there, even with good intention. I just don't want a snowball effect. This is a language, you can do privately whatever with it, but first you have to understand that it is a language in use, to learn to separate what you want to do with it, of what it is. And this way, respect those, who want to use it as a functional language. People who where in the first place.

—not to have good arguments to defend esperanto in a non esperantist environment: “yeah, ok, the ‘universal’ ‘regular’ language everybody can change. That's very… regular and… universal”. And just because there is some people that can accept more easily the reasons to don't accept esperanto as it is, than facts to accept it as it is.

I can accept people being creative; I can not accept people insisting that everybody must listen to their creativity because Esperanto “needs” it.

I haven't anything against klingon, na'vi, elvish or dothraki. But esperanto it's just another thing, it's not just to have fun. It's a really useful language, and it's used not only as entertainment, and we must to be clear about that. And this is not a thing of interchange politely reasonable arguments to arrive to a middle point: It's just a language with its own characteristics.

Ĝis, Novatago.

I know about -iv- from Sinjoro Harlow's site, but it seems redundant

Not so.

From the Tekstaro, a nice contrast between -em and -iv:

Aparta malkovro por multaj estis la kreema kaj produktiva Majorka esperantistaro

1. I'm now resigned to the sad fact that Esperanto does have grammatical gender after all, and just calls it "root class" instead. But where can I find a dictionary that will give class as well as meaning?
5. I get that the style of Esperanto I've decided to make my own will most likely catch me a good bit of flak. Saying homino instead of virino and using the neologisms gi, -unt-, -ut-, -iĉ-, -uk-, na, graŭ, cit, far, and malantaŭ I mean. I get that it's somewhat discouraged overall, but is it just discouraged or would it actually keep people from understanding what I'm talking about?
6. Where can I find the more technical/scientific/medical neologisms like -oz- and such?
...
2. I had an idea question five would become the central focus of the thread. Figured it'd be worth a shot though, at least to further gauge the overall level of hostility on the boards to newer usages or coinages since the 19th century.

I'm not quite sure why it is a "sad fact" that Esperanto has grammatical gender. Nowadays it is almost entirely neutral in that "hundo" refers to a dog in general and not only a male dog. I see no real difference between "homino" and "virino" other than some misplaced female chauvinism. In so strongly opposing any perceived inequality you are exemplifying that which you claim to oppose. Sexism is sexism the same way that racism is racism; it doesn't matter who or what kind of person is doing it. You come across as intentionally antagonistic, especially in admitting that you figured you would get "hostile" responses. As RiotNrrd mentioned, you are receiving the responses of those who have heard your argument a hundred times year after year from every komencanto who thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread. Your outright statement that you will choose to use non-standard language as some kind of activism is NOT a good way to go about getting positive responses and meaningful discussion.

Of all the proposed improvements you cite the only one I see having meaningful use is "na", but mainly in the context of referring to non-esperanto words and phrases. Unt and ut are logical continuations of the participles that are congruent with the regular conditional ending, so they would also be logical additions even if they would rarely be useful.

Looks like you have already taken novatago's advice and left anyway...

kaŝperanto:Looks like you have already taken novatago's advice and left anyway...

Just to clarify the case, I remind everybody that me (and others) ask him to learn the language as it is for several times in the first place. He only listened when I ask to quit. Why? (rhetorical question)

Ĝis, Novatago.

Obviously it's better if someone chooses to learn standard spoken Esperanto. But the truth is that if someone has an idea that they want to speak their own "reformed" Esperanto, they will not find the Esperanto community to be warm and welcoming, and their "Esperanto life" will be a constant struggle. This is what happens when someone persists in seeing Esperanto as a project up for editing and not as a living language, but unfortunately I am not aware of a foolproof way of making someone see that Esperanto is exactly as open to editing as English or French. I wish we could find such a foolproof method, maybe it would make some things easier in these forums!

At any rate, seems like the user in question didn't see his proposed language as being reformed at all; he saw it as being the "living" language rather than a dead textbook version, a version with a few "minor" edits that he found online. Unfortunately you also cannot force someone to see differently than that; they have to integrate with the community and see for themselves, which is hard when you spend a lot of time alienating the community.