Fenris_kcf:
It's not a matter of constructed or not. Languages change; if they don't, they'll die. And to me it seems that waiting for totally "natural change" takes too long in todays world. German had a reform ~15 years ago and IMO it was a good step to do. Something similar can be done in the case of Esperanto, but too many speakers seem to fear such a step; i guess due to Esperantos history and all the Esprantidos.

Yeah, people learn a language to be obligated learn new grammar things every year. Invent a language and try to spread it with ideas like that.

“It's a small change” is the biggest lie of reformists.

Ĝis, Novatago.

What is the history of the suffix "-enda"? Wasn't this borrowed from Ido and later officialised by the Academy?

Should this suffix also be frowned upon, being the outcome of a reform?

nornen:What is the history of the suffix "-enda"? Wasn't this borrowed from Ido and later officialised by the Academy?

Should this suffix also be frowned upon, being the outcome of a reform?

If it's not in the Fundamento, then it's not in the language. That's the very definition of Esperanto: what's in the Fundamento. That a few people choose to use an Esperanto-Ido pidgin rather than real Esperanto as defined in the universal dictionary and grammar doesn't change this. It can't be a truly international language unless it's truly international. It can't be truly stable unless it remains static. There's no point in an internationally understood lingua franca that everyone constantly changes and makes dialects out of. We may as well stay with international English if that were the case.

AllenHartwell:If it's not in the Fundamento, then it's not in the language. That's the very definition of Esperanto: what's in the Fundamento. That a few people choose to use an Esperanto-Ido pidgin rather than real Esperanto as defined in the universal dictionary and grammar doesn't change this. It can't be a truly international language unless it's truly international. It can't be truly stable unless it remains static. There's no point in an internationally understood lingua franca that everyone constantly changes and makes dialects out of. We may as well stay with international English if that were the case.

Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone.

Why do you personally use a pidgin in your post:

AllenHartwell:Mi vidis la vorton en la forumon. Ĉu ĝi signifas la internan ideon? :S

I couldn't find forum' or ide' in the Universala Vortaro. And parsing them as for'um'o and id'e'o doesn't make any sense.

nornen:What is the history of the suffix "-enda"? Wasn't this borrowed from Ido and later officialised by the Academy?

Should this suffix also be frowned upon, being the outcome of a reform?

Again and again this argument. That is not the point. The point is that Lernu! is to learn Esperanto, not the “oficiala reformproponejo”.

And apart of that, nobody said that everything must to be refused (only things changing the grammar), and nobody should think everything must be accepted. Although everybody must understand that this is something to understand and to be understood, to facilitate communication, not to make it worse and worse all the time.

But anyway I think to present proposals is something stupid enough because you are assuming that everybody should or is going to accept it immediately .

Ĝis, Novatago.

Fenris_kcf:German had a reform ~15 years ago and IMO it was a good step to do.

There was no reform of the German language in 1996, but of the German orthography. The difference is very very huge.

AllenHartwell:If it's not in the Fundamento, then it's not in the language. That's the very definition of Esperanto: what's in the Fundamento.

Sorry, but (as a Fundamentisto myself) this is simply not true. Please read the Antaŭparolo to the Fundamento: The F defines which parts of E-o are fix and not open to change, it does in no way limit the use of new material -including new rules-, unless the are not synonymous to elements of the F. In the latter case the new rule or root needs the approval of the Akademio de Esperanto, which must officially add the element to the language beside the old element, which rests valid.
As the name says, the Fundamento is the base, not the whole building.

And yes, -end- came over from Ido, as did farbo and many other useful additions.

AllenHartwell:If it's not in the Fundamento, then it's not in the language.

novatago:And apart of that, nobody said that everything must to be refused

Either I misread the first post or the second one. Unless AllenHartwell's nickname is nobody.

nornen:

AllenHartwell:If it's not in the Fundamento, then it's not in the language.

novatago:And apart of that, nobody said that everything must to be refused

Either I misread the first post or the second. Unless AllenHartwell's nickname is nobody.

Ok, he is a begginer too, and I think you said something about to let them alone. Are you going to follow your own advise? Maybe that only is right when is other people “bothering”, not you.

Anyway I don't think AllenHartwell actually meant what he wrote. But I think he understand quite well the idea behind Esperanto.

Ĝis, Novatago.

AllenHartwell:

nornen:What is the history of the suffix "-enda"? Wasn't this borrowed from Ido and later officialised by the Academy?

Should this suffix also be frowned upon, being the outcome of a reform?

If it's not in the Fundamento, then it's not in the language. That's the very definition of Esperanto: what's in the Fundamento.

That's not what the Fundamento is all about. It's the *baseline* of Esperanto. There is nothing in the Fundamento that says you can't add things ::as long as they don't violate the Fundamento or cause a violation OF the Fundamento:: The "icx" suffix causes such a violation (in order for it to work and not cause superfluity the "male words" need to be changed to "gender neutral": The Fundamento defines "patro" as "father", not "parent".
The suffix "-end" did nothing to change anything in the Fundamento.

novatago: Ok, he is a begginer too, and I think you said something about to let them alone. Are you going to follow your own advise? Maybe that only is right when is other people “bothering” not you.

I didn't say anything about leaving beginners to their own devices. I believe such a behaviour would be fatal on a learning site. (I actually said, that everybody can choose to ignore other users.) And by the way, nobody is bothering me.

novatago:Anyway I don't think AllenHartwell actually meant what he wrote.

Maybe we should leave this decision to AllenHartwell himself.

novatago:Although everybody must understand that this is something to understand and to be understood

I understand.