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iom, iuj, kelka

ya BoriQa, 24 Mei 2014

Ujumbe: 28

Lugha: English

BoriQa (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 12:52:13 asubuhi

What is the subtle difference between: iom, iuj and kelka?

Are these correct:

iom metroj
iom da metro
iuj metroj
kelkaj metroj

How are they different?

Danke!

Rejsi (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 3:09:20 asubuhi

BoriQa:iom metroj
iom da metro
I believe the correct form here is iom da metroj. Either way, your first option is definitely wrong.

Whenever you have an adverb and are using it to sort of "modify the noun," you need the word "da." Think of it as saying "I have some of the pancakes."
iuj metroj
Generally, the word "iu(j)" doesn't modify a noun. It tends to stand by itself to mean "someone" or "something." According to PMEG, it can and seems to be similar to "unu" or "kelkaj," but it is not common usage.
kelkaj metroj
This is good. A similar phrase is kelke da metroj, but yours is more common.
How are they different?
This is more difficult to address. Many will say there are subtle nuances between the two (one may stress a bit of a smaller amount or something along those lines), but I think you'd be fine using them interchangeably. Does a more advanced speaker want to tell us what they think?

BoriQa (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 3:17:12 asubuhi

Thanks!

It makes more sense now.

morfran (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 4:20:17 asubuhi

Iom is “some, but not much/many”; iu is “certain individuals of a group”; kelka is “some, but not much/many of a whole”, so:

iomaj metroj = a few meters
iom da metroj = some metrage
iuj metroj = certain meters
kelkaj metroj = some (of the total) meters
kelke da metroj = some (of the total) metrage

Rejsi (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 5:04:44 asubuhi

morfran:Iom is “some, but not much/many”; iu is “certain individuals of a group”; kelka is “some, but not much/many of a whole”, so:

iomaj metroj = a few meters
iom da metroj = some metrage
kelkaj metroj = some (of the total) meters
kelke da metroj = some (of the total) metrage
How did you draw these conclusions?

nornen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 5:27:29 asubuhi

Rejsi:Whenever you have an adverb and are using it to sort of "modify the noun," you need the word "da."
This, in general, is not correct. Adverbs can indeed modify nouns.
For adverb(ial)s of quantity, grade, or measure, your statement might be correct.

morfran (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 5:43:20 asubuhi

Rejsi:How did you draw these conclusions?
A combination of the PIV and the Millidge dictionary.

PIV:Iu alludes to the individuality of a person or thing as vs. the whole of others of the same type

Iom: an indefinite, but most often small amount or number

Kelka: an indefinite quantity of a whole
Millidge:Iu: some one, somebody, some person, some, anyone; marks individuality

Iom: some, a little, somewhat, rather

Kelka: some, a little
Unfortunately, I forgot to edit out the “but not much/many” part from kelka, which I had just copied/pasted from my explanation of iom. My bad.

BoriQa (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 11:31:35 asubuhi

Thanks everybody!

nornen:
Rejsi:Whenever you have an adverb and are using it to sort of "modify the noun," you need the word "da."
This, in general, is not correct. Adverbs can indeed modify nouns.
For adverb(ial)s of quantity, grade, or measure, your statement might be correct.
Nornen, can you give me an example of an Adverb modifying a noun? Thanks.

nornen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 3:02:51 alasiri

BoriQa:Thanks everybody!

nornen:
Rejsi:Whenever you have an adverb and are using it to sort of "modify the noun," you need the word "da."
This, in general, is not correct. Adverbs can indeed modify nouns.
For adverb(ial)s of quantity, grade, or measure, your statement might be correct.
Nornen, can you give me an example of an Adverb modifying a noun? Thanks.
The tree over there is an oak.

bartlett22183 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 24 Mei 2014 5:44:34 alasiri

nornen:
BoriQa:Thanks everybody!
This, in general, is not correct. Adverbs can indeed modify nouns.
For adverb(ial)s of quantity, grade, or measure, your statement might be correct.
Nornen, can you give me an example of an Adverb modifying a noun? Thanks.
The tree over there is an oak.
Not quite. "Over there" in this instance is an idiomatic prepositional phrase (where "there" is acting as an idiomatic demonstrative pronoun and can be the object of a preposition), and in English, at least, prepositional phrases can act as adjectives to modify a noun. I would be interested in what the expert Esperantists have to say on such a matter.

Kurudi juu