erinja:I don't quite understand the KJV issue. I have been told in the past that some Christians believe that the KJV is the only "correct" English translation of the Bible. But does that mean that people who speak other languages are somehow hellbound because their, say, Croatian translation wasn't done from KJV, but from the original texts? What if you are a very educated person who is able to read the texts in the original languages?

the "KJV Only's" run the gamut from the "the KJV is the only correct English translation, but other languages have their own 'only correct' translation" to the hard-core, so-called Ruckmanites, who say that the KJV is THE only "correct" version (not just translation but VERSION) of the Bible, meaning that the KJV is to be followed over even the original language versions. This latter position falls to shreds, of course, when we consider the changes in meaning of many of the words used in 1611 compared to today.

what baffles me is why on earth the OP wishes to waste her time on these comics. Jack Chick publishing is the Westboro Baptist Church of the Christian Literature world.

I would be careful about calling anything a "waste of time" in the Esperanto world. Many if not most people in the world would say that Esperanto itself is a waste of time. I may not have an interest in missionary comics (and indeed, I have zero interest in such a thing), but translating them is as good a project for language practice as any. It's no more a waste of time than translating a favorite song, the instructions on a box of cake mix, or the religious text of a religion that no longer has any adherents.

If someone would translate Westboro Baptist Church materials, I'd say the same. Except I would suggest they not post that on the lernu forums because such a translation would likely fall afoul of our rules on profanity!

erinja:I would be careful about calling anything a "waste of time" in the Esperanto world. Many if not most people in the world would say that Esperanto itself is a waste of time. I may not have an interest in missionary comics (and indeed, I have zero interest in such a thing), but translating them is as good a project for language practice as any. It's no more a waste of time than translating a favorite song, the instructions on a box of cake mix, or the religious text of a religion that no longer has any adherents.

If someone would translate Westboro Baptist Church materials, I'd say the same. Except I would suggest they not post that on the lernu forums because such a translation would likely fall afoul of our rules on profanity!

I say they are a waste of time brcause anything as evil as they are (JC AND WBC) does more harm than good in general. I would hate to think that the only exposure to Christianity some poor unsuspecting soul out there would see is these tracts or WBC's vitriole. Plus, I would not want people that would read these bits of trash (EVEN in Esperanto!) in Esperantujo. It would be like the Manson family all joining the Esperanto movement!

orthohawk:I say they are a waste of time brcause anything as evil as they are (JC AND WBC) does more harm than good in general. I would hate to think that the only exposure to Christianity some poor unsuspecting soul out there would see is these tracts or WBC's vitriole. Plus, I would not want people that would read these bits of trash (EVEN in Esperanto!) in Esperantujo. It would be like the Manson family all joining the Esperanto movement!

It's a subjective thing. But if this is someone's sincerely held beliefs, I don't have a problem with them making a pamphlet to explain that to others, and translating that pamphlet into Esperanto.

From my perspective, one Christian pamphlet is equally as right or wrong as another, so I'm not overly concerned with people presenting me with incorrect theology. Furthermore, I think most people in the Esperanto world have quite a lot of exposure to Christianity (whether they want to or not), so these pamphlets are highly unlikely to be their only contact with Christian ideas. I understand your feelings, though, I might be annoyed if someone was translating a bunch of Jewish information that I felt was incorrect, and sending it out to all the Esperantists. If that were to happen, then, it would be the duty of people who felt differently to make their own pamphlet in Esperanto to explain things according to their own views. It's a marketplace of ideas and whoever spends the effort to express their ideas will get more exposure. For what it's worth, I doubt there's much Esperanto demand for Jack Chick pamphlets. We can open a new thread (in the Esperanto forums?) if you want to discuss this further, it's not really relevant to this thread any longer.

orthohawk:
I say they are a waste of time brcause anything as evil as they are (JC AND WBC) does more harm than good in general. I would hate to think that the only exposure to Christianity some poor unsuspecting soul out there would see is these tracts or WBC's vitriole. Plus, I would not want people that would read these bits of trash (EVEN in Esperanto!) in Esperantujo. It would be like the Manson family all joining the Esperanto movement!

I honestly don't see any similarity at all between Chick tracts and Westboraĉo Baptist stuff. Just sayin'. Westboraĉo Baptists should fall off the face of the earth.

erinja: We can open a new thread (in the Esperanto forums?) if you want to discuss this further, it's not really relevant to this thread any longer.

Thank you for noting the topic ! To anyone who does make such a thread, please put the link here so I can find it easily.

Christa627:

orthohawk:
I say they are a waste of time brcause anything as evil as they are (JC AND WBC) does more harm than good in general. I would hate to think that the only exposure to Christianity some poor unsuspecting soul out there would see is these tracts or WBC's vitriole. Plus, I would not want people that would read these bits of trash (EVEN in Esperanto!) in Esperantujo. It would be like the Manson family all joining the Esperanto movement!

I honestly don't see any similarity at all between Chick tracts and Westboraĉo Baptist stuff. Just sayin'. Westboraĉo Baptists should fall off the face of the earth.

Seriously??? They're both hate groups, granted JC isn't QUITE so bad as WBC, but their vitriol and lies published against Catholics and Jews is definitely something we do NOT need in Esperantujo At. All. Religious people have to deal with enough hostility in E-ujo without that kind of garbage from supposed fellow belivers.

orthohawk:

Christa627:

orthohawk:
I say they are a waste of time brcause anything as evil as they are (JC AND WBC) does more harm than good in general. I would hate to think that the only exposure to Christianity some poor unsuspecting soul out there would see is these tracts or WBC's vitriole. Plus, I would not want people that would read these bits of trash (EVEN in Esperanto!) in Esperantujo. It would be like the Manson family all joining the Esperanto movement!

I honestly don't see any similarity at all between Chick tracts and Westboraĉo Baptist stuff. Just sayin'. Westboraĉo Baptists should fall off the face of the earth.

Seriously??? They're both hate groups, granted JC isn't QUITE so bad as WBC, but their vitriol and lies published against Catholics and Jews is definitely something we do NOT need in Esperantujo At. All. Religious people have to deal with enough hostility in E-ujo without that kind of garbage from supposed fellow belivers.

One might say that the only person expressing hostility toward believers in this thread is you - a fellow believer who believes something different.

Erin is right. People are free to discuss their beliefs. That those beliefs may be unpopular or that some people may not like them doesn't mean we should repress them. That kind of thinking actually led to Esperanto, itself, being declared subversive by despotic regimes trying to enslave minds.

I'm a conservative Apostolic Pentecostal...I do not agree with many of the beliefs put forth by Chick publications...and that's okay, they wouldn't like all of my beliefs, either. But it is jaw-dropping that you would compare people submitting beliefs you don't agree with to the marketplace of ideas with the cruelty of WBC celebrating destruction and tormenting the grief-stricken by publicly spewing vitriol and desecrating funerals. There's simply no comparison.

If Chick publications do not agree with Roman Catholicism...or any other group, they should be free to say so, and to say why. Likewise, we should be free to decide whether or not we agree---that's freedom. But I've never heard of Jack Chick celebrating terrible things happening to people he doesn't agree with or taking joy in the thought of them burning in Hell (as WBC does), or taunting survivors by publicly saying he wishes it had been worse worse. Do you NOT see the difference? Really?

When we get to the place where people are vilified for saying what they believe, or where they can't discuss their divergent views without being accused of "hate-speech", we've lost something crucial as a free society. As far as I can tell, Esperanto is all about this free exchange of ideas.

erinja:

orthohawk:

Christa627:

orthohawk:
I say they are a waste of time brcause anything as evil as they are (JC AND WBC) does more harm than good in general. I would hate to think that the only exposure to Christianity some poor unsuspecting soul out there would see is these tracts or WBC's vitriole. Plus, I would not want people that would read these bits of trash (EVEN in Esperanto!) in Esperantujo. It would be like the Manson family all joining the Esperanto movement!

I honestly don't see any similarity at all between Chick tracts and Westboraĉo Baptist stuff. Just sayin'. Westboraĉo Baptists should fall off the face of the earth.

Seriously??? They're both hate groups, granted JC isn't QUITE so bad as WBC, but their vitriol and lies published against Catholics and Jews is definitely something we do NOT need in Esperantujo At. All. Religious people have to deal with enough hostility in E-ujo without that kind of garbage from supposed fellow belivers.

One might say that the only person expressing hostility toward believers in this thread is you - a fellow believer who believes something different.

why thee chooses to blind thyself to the hostility that religious people receive in E-ujo is a mystery to me. I AM a believer. Eastern Orthodox. JC and WBC are NOT believers, no matter what they claim to the contrary. They are evil, hateful, b::::*ds who wouldn't know the love of Christ if He Himself came down and preached directly to them. And by the way, they hate thee too, JUST because thee's Jewish....In 1930s Germany they'd have worn swastikas on their sleeves.
don't forget the old saying: don't have such an open mind that your brains fall out.

Polaris:Erin is right. People are free to discuss their beliefs. That those beliefs may be unpopular or that some people may not like them doesn't mean we should repress them. That kind of thinking actually led to Esperanto, itself, being declared subversive by despotic regimes trying to enslave minds.

I'm a conservative Apostolic Pentecostal...I do not agree with many of the beliefs put forth by Chick publications...and that's okay, they wouldn't like all of my beliefs, either. But it is jaw-dropping that you would compare people submitting beliefs you don't agree with to the marketplace of ideas with the cruelty of WBC celebrating destruction and tormenting the grief-stricken by publicly spewing vitriol and desecrating funerals. There's simply no comparison.

If Chick publications do not agree with Roman Catholicism...or any other group, they should be free to say so, and to say why. Likewise, we should be free to decide whether or not we agree---that's freedom. But I've never heard of Jack Chick celebrating terrible things happening to people he doesn't agree with or taking joy in the thought of them burning in Hell (as WBC does), or taunting survivors by publicly saying he wishes it had been worse worse. Do you NOT see the difference? Really?

When we get to the place where people are vilified for saying what they believe, or where they can't discuss their divergent views without being accused of "hate-speech", we've lost something crucial as a free society. As far as I can tell, Esperanto is all about this free exchange of ideas.

I have no problem with people believing what they believe. I have a BIG problem with how some (JC and WBC inter alia) express it and how they treat "the others" based on it.
Thee says thee never heard of Jack Chick celebrating terrible things happening to people he doesn't agree with or taking joy in the thought of them burning in Hell (as WBC does)? Well, true; they aren't so open and blatant about it, but it is clear to see in their "literature".....whatever language it's printed in. Maybe one has to be on the receiving end of their hatred to see the devil behind it.