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Conditional Help

Foreigner, 2014 m. liepa 9 d.

Žinutės: 58

Kalba: English

Clarence666 (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 11 d. 16:50:00

> Devintus isn't Fundamento word

one often meets it | oni ofte renkontas tion

> same is for devunta, manĝunta

"-unt" & "-ut" is definitely an error | estas absolute erare

nornen (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 11 d. 16:57:47

Dear native speakers,

how would you translate the following quotes into English?

LLZ:En la nokto la hundo venis denove, prenis la reĝidinon sur sian dorson kaj kuris kun ŝi al la soldato, kiu ŝin tre forte amis kaj tre dezirus esti princo, por povi edziĝi kun ŝi.

Sed ŝi ne povis al si permesi sin levi, ĉar per tio ŝi vekus la gepatrojn.

sudanglo (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 12 d. 09:17:29

Devintus isn't Fundamento word

one often meets it | oni ofte renkontas tion
Yes, and if one limited oneself to Fundamentaj words, there would be quite a few things one wouldn't be able to say.

sudanglo (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 12 d. 09:47:36

nornen:Dear native speakers,

how would you translate the following quotes into English?

LLZ:En la nokto la hundo venis denove, prenis la reĝidinon sur sian dorson kaj kuris kun ŝi al la soldato, kiu ŝin tre forte amis kaj tre dezirus esti princo, por povi edziĝi kun ŝi.

Sed ŝi ne povis al si permesi sin levi, ĉar per tio ŝi vekus la gepatrojn.
The dog came again in the night and with the princess on its back they raced off together to the soldier who was so in love with her and who would have very much liked to have been a prince so he might marry her.

The next sentence doesn't fit with the first. The next sentence seems to imply no night-time excursions.

But she couldn't allow herself to get up because that would wake (would have woken) her parents

Edit: What point are you trying to make here Nornen?

Rugxdoma (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 12 d. 12:56:30

sudanglo:
nornen:Dear native speakers,

how would you translate the following quotes into English?

LLZ:En la nokto la hundo venis denove, prenis la reĝidinon sur sian dorson kaj kuris kun ŝi al la soldato, kiu ŝin tre forte amis kaj tre dezirus esti princo, por povi edziĝi kun ŝi.

Sed ŝi ne povis al si permesi sin levi, ĉar per tio ŝi vekus la gepatrojn.
The dog came again in the night and rode with her on its back to the soldier that she was so in love with and who would have very much liked to have been a prince so he might marry her.
There is some mistake in the translation. Here is one English translation, which I found on the web, perhaps a direct one from the Danish original of "The Tinderbox".
During the night, the dog came again and carried the princess on his back, and ran with her to the soldier, who loved her very much, and wished that he had been a prince, so that he might have her for a wife.

sudanglo (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 12 d. 14:56:43

Yes, Rugxdoma, I carelessly inverted who loves who. Now changed so that the soldier loves the princess.

I was concentrating on the two conditionals in the Esperanto version (as this is what this thread is about), and wondering what Nornen's argument was going to be.

sergejm (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 12 d. 15:36:12

I think there is no need to use conditional -us with deziri, because it by itself means condition.
I would use "deziris" in Esperanto and translate it to "wished" in English. In fact, "esti princo" and "povi edziĝi kun ŝi" need conditionals, not "deziri".

DuckFiasco (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 12 d. 23:30:54

I believe -us is often used to soften verbs like voli, deziri, esperi, demandi. You see a similar structure in Indo-European languages, things like "I would like" instead of "I want".
"deziris" would be good here too, though.

"esti princo" directly follows a conjugated verb, so the infinitive is needed. "povi" follows "por" with the same subject as the clause (soldato), so the infinitive is needed here also.

nornen (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 13 d. 05:51:56

sudanglo:Edit: What point are you trying to make here Nornen?
No point at all. I was just trying to understand the usage of the conditional in English.
Ultimately, I would like to understand, where the confustion about -us of many English speakers comes from. The urge to imitate "would have" in Esperanto and the difficulty to accept that there is no past conditional in Eo, and that "mi estus farinta" has about as much in common with "I would have done" as a green pear with a red apple.

sergejm (Rodyti profilį) 2014 m. liepa 13 d. 07:29:51

nornen:The urge to imitate "would have" in Esperanto and the difficulty to accept that there is no past conditional in Eo, and that "mi estus farinta" has about as much in common with "I would have done" as a green pear with a red apple.
There is no need imitate English complex times in Esperanto.
For example, instead of "Mi estus farinta" you can speak "Mi jam farus" (= "I would have done already" ).
But future participle can be more useful: "Mi estus faronta" = "Mi estus preta fari" = "I would be ready to do".

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