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Translation help

от zazi, 10 сентября 2014 г.

Сообщений: 19

Язык: English

zazi (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 18:28:13

How would I say "Sometimes I remember to do that."?

"Kelkfoje mi memoras fari tion." seems wrong to me, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it is fine.

mbalicki (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 18:41:55

Well, I'm a newbie, but I think kelkfoje means more like “few times”. I'd translate “sometimes” as foje, iufoje or iafoje.

But again, let's wait for some pros to comment on that.

nornen (Показать профиль) 10 сентября 2014 г., 23:37:22

In the tekstaro you can find "memori + infinitive", but exclusively in non-Zamenhofian works.

Z himself never[1] used this construction. He mostly uses "memori pri" and "memori, ke".

So maybe: Kelkfoje mi memoras ke mi faru (devas fari) tion.

Supposing that "Sometimes I remember to do that." implies an obligation which you frequently forget, but sometimes you do carry out that obligation (hence the -u or devas).

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[1] At least I can't find any evidence of it in the tekstaro.

morfran (Показать профиль) 11 сентября 2014 г., 0:10:02

zazi:How would I say "Sometimes I remember to do that."?

"Kelkfoje mi memoras fari tion." seems wrong to me, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it is fine.
Depending on what you mean by “sometimes”, there are different ways to say it, each with its own subtle shade of difference:

iafoje: On some (types of) definite occasions
iufoje: On certain, sporadic occasions
kelk(a)foje: On some (but not many — refers to amount) definite occasions
plurfoje: On multiple occasions

As for memori fari, I don’t see a problem with that construction, since the subjects of memori and fari are the same:

ni devas memori, ke nia lingvo devas servi […] ankaŭ por la vivo || we must remember that our language must serve life, too (Z)

but

ni devas memori servi […] ankaŭ por la vivo || we must remember to serve life, too

zazi (Показать профиль) 11 сентября 2014 г., 1:22:49

nornen:In the tekstaro you can find "memori + infinitive", but exclusively in non-Zamenhofian works.

Z himself never[1] used this construction. He mostly uses "memori pri" and "memori, ke".

So maybe: Kelkfoje mi memoras ke mi faru (devas fari) tion.

Supposing that "Sometimes I remember to do that." implies an obligation which you frequently forget, but sometimes you do carry out that obligation (hence the -u or devas).

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[1] At least I can't find any evidence of it in the tekstaro.
That is the sense I was going for. Thanks!

zazi (Показать профиль) 11 сентября 2014 г., 1:45:28

morfran:

Depending on what you mean by “sometimes”, there are different ways to say it, each with its own subtle shade of difference:

iafoje: On some (types of) definite occasions
iufoje: On certain, sporadic occasions
kelk(a)foje: On some (but not many — refers to amount) definite occasions
plurfoje: On multiple occasions

As for memori fari, I don’t see a problem with that construction, since the subjects of memori and fari are the same:

ni devas memori, ke nia lingvo devas servi […] ankaŭ por la vivo || we must remember that our language must serve life, too (Z)

but

ni devas memori servi […] ankaŭ por la vivo || we must remember to serve life, too
Thanks!

I guess it could be iufoje, though I am not entirely sure of the distinction between that and kelkfoje.

As for memori fari, I haven't seen it anywhere, but I don't read much beyond beginner level. When I start stringing together verbs myself, I never know if I have it quite right. Sometimes I think it is right because it works in English (and I already know what I am trying to say so it is clear to me). Other times I think I am mixing in the tiny amount of Spanish I remember from school.

sergejm (Показать профиль) 11 сентября 2014 г., 6:39:10

I would say: Iam mi rememoros, ke mi faru tion

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 11 сентября 2014 г., 10:37:04

I was surprised to see how few hits there were in the Tekstaro for memori + infinitive.

But given that you can say Ĉu vu forgesis ŝlosi la pordon, I don't see why you can't say Ĉu vi memoris ŝlosi la pordon.

Also this seems to follow a common pattern in many European languages.

There seems to me to a difference of existential import between

1. Ĉu vi forgesis, ke vi slosis la pordon
2. Ĉu vi forgesis ŝlosi la pordon.

sergejm (Показать профиль) 11 сентября 2014 г., 11:02:02

In Russian, this is not simmetrical:
Я забыл закрыть дверь
Mi forgesis ŝlosi la pordon.
I have forgotten to lock the door

Я вспомнил, что нужно закрыть дверь.
Mi rememoris, ke necesas ŝlosi la pordon.
I have remembered [that it is necessary] to lock the door

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 11 сентября 2014 г., 11:21:38

Whatever happens in Russian, there's a difference in Esperanto between.

1. Mi forgesis ŝlosi la pordon
2. Mi rememoris, ke necesas ŝlosi la pordon.

Penso pri la neceso ion fari ne havas klaran implicon pri ĉu vi faris aŭ ne faris.

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