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Middle Name

von jkph00, 11. September 2014

Beiträge: 16

Sprache: English

jkph00 (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 13:50:35

How does one translate "middle name" in the saying, "Patience is my middle name?" Would meza nomo do? In fact, what is the Esperanto for 1) first name, 2) middle name and 3) last (or family) name?

Thanks!

erinja (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 13:56:49

I think that "second name" is a common expression in many languages. "dua nomo" might be an alternative.

jkph00 (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 14:01:50

erinja:I think that "second name" is a common expression in many languages. "dua nomo" might be an alternative.
Thank you, Erinja! And by extension, "unua nomo" for first name? How about "family" or "last" name?

Alkanadi (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 14:34:51

I searched the tekstaro.com website:

Unua nomo = 0 hits
Ununomo = 0 hits

Meza nomo = 0 hits
Meznomo = 0 hits

Dua nomo = 1 hit
Dunomo = 0 hits

Familia nomo = 7 hits
Familinomo = 25 hits

This form uses: Persona nomo - Familia nomo

This IJK form uses: Persona nomo - Familia nomo

I think this makes the most sense: Nomo or Unua nomo (to be more specific) - dua nomo - familio nomo

This is what I think but I am a noob so don't trust me.

sergejm (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 15:10:13

First name is antaŭnomo.
Russians have patronomo instead of second name
There are kromnomo, alnomo,baptonomo, persona nomo.
Ludoviko Lazaro Zamenhof in Russian is Lazar Markoviĉ Zamengof.
Lazar is antaŭnomo or persona nomo (?),
Markoviĉ is patronomo,
Zamenhof is familia nomo.
You can find dua antaŭnomo in tekstaro.

nornen (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 17:41:45

jkph00:How does one translate "middle name" in the saying, "Patience is my middle name?" Would meza nomo do? In fact, what is the Esperanto for 1) first name, 2) middle name and 3) last (or family) name?

Thanks!
I fear that even if you find a nice word for "middle name", the meaning of "Pacienco estas mia dua antauxnomo." wouldn't be clear to many non-English Esperanto speakers. When you translate sayings verbatim into a foreign language (not only Esperanto), the meaning can get lost in translation.

For instance if you say in Spanish "Hola, me llamo Kurt Smith y mi segundo nombre es Paciencia." it can happend that you are then addressed as "Señor Kurt Paciencia Smith"... A strange middle name and no mistake, but hey, it's your middle name.

Just imagine I said to you in Esperanto "Kiu estas papago, ie ajn estas verda."[1] - Would the meaning be clear?
Or "La rivero sonas ĉar ĝi portas ŝtonojn".[2]

Translating modisms somehow takes the "international" out of "international language".

----
[1] El que es perico donde quiera es verde. = A tiger doesn't change its stripes (or pants as Terry Pratchett would say).
[2] El río suena porque piedras trae.

erinja (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 19:02:56

Actually in the context of this idiom, "kromnomo" isn't a bad choice. Kromnomo is pretty much the standard word for "nickname".

nornen (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 19:34:20

erinja:Actually in the context of this idiom, "kromnomo" isn't a bad choice. Kromnomo is pretty much the standard word for "nickname".
+1. I think that replacing "middle name" by "nickname" would also help the listener to understand the intended meaning of the idiom.

jkph00 (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 22:11:48

nornen:
erinja:Actually in the context of this idiom, "kromnomo" isn't a bad choice. Kromnomo is pretty much the standard word for "nickname".
+1. I think that replacing "middle name" by "nickname" would also help the listener to understand the intended meaning of the idiom.
Fascinating! All these interesting things one learns from asking a simple translation into Esperanto. I can think of hardly a better reason for learning it!

Sergejm, I like the Russian use of a "patronomo."

Warmest thanks to everyone. I will use "kromnomo" in the translation.

robbkvasnak (Profil anzeigen) 11. September 2014 22:26:22

That is what is coolest about Esperanto - it makes you think INTERNATIONALLY - meaning what will get your ideas across outside of your cultural box. If for no other reason, this is convincing for teaching Esperanto to youth. It will open their horizons and make them think about what their own culture is and compare with other cultures. In national/ethnic languages, this gets lost in translation.

Which brings me to a new slogan for Esperanto:
Act locally, think internationally, speak Esperanto

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