Altebrilas:

EldanarLambetur:

Altebrilas:For instance pi=3.1416 is "pli vera ol" pi=3.14

Though here both are false; they are approximations. I wouldn't say you could have degrees of true like that.

Probably nobody knows the absolute truth, except God, for believers. So in everyday life "pli vera" means "closer to the truth".

There is no true representation of pi as a number, since its digits are infinite and can not be known (krom probable al Dio). But I can know the absolute truth of the statement "1+1=2" or "The sky appears blue to me". Anything that can be logically analysed in this way will either be true or false with 100% certainty.

Altebrilas:About verŝajne/probable a test may be to answer one of these two questions:
- Kio estas verŝajna, sed ne probabla ?
- Kio estas probabla , sed ne verŝajna ?

Perhaps the weirdness of quantum mechanics could give us an example of such behavior. A particle has a probability of existing in a certain location, but in truth we have shown that as long as you're not interacting with it the particle does not exist at any location and behaves like a wave. So the particle is "probable" located at x, but not "versxajne" because no matter how likely it is to be located there it is not technically true unless we measure it to be so.

...But I can know the absolute truth of the statement "1+1=2" or "The sky appears blue to me"...

Is the sky blue? What about at night when it is black? What about when it rains? What about overcast days when it is grey? Color is determined based on reflected light, and the sky produces its blue color through filtration. Can it still be called blue? What if you are in space looking down at the earth, then the sky is transparent. Maybe, a better statement is that the sky appears to be blue less than 50% of the time from an earthly perspective. Even if you say that the sky appears blue to you, that can be debated because believes are a result of socialisation.

Is 1+1 = 2 ? It depends on the mathematical theory that is applied.

Binary or base1 - 1+1 = 10

Concatenation - 1+1 = 11

Boolean - It is true that 1+1 = 13 is a false statement

One hole plus another hole equals 1 hole - 1+1 = 1

If you start counting with the number zero, such as computer programming, where the index marks the position of the number - 1+1 = 3

I hope that I am not annoying you. No, I don't have autism. I am just too nerdy to let that one slide.

kaŝperanto:There is no true representation of pi as a number, since its digits are infinite and can not be known (krom probable al Dio).

According to the bible, pi = 3 exactly. There is a place they give the diameter and the circumference of a circle thing.

sergejm:

kaŝperanto:There is no true representation of pi as a number, since its digits are infinite and can not be known (krom probable al Dio).

According to the bible, pi = 3 exactly. There is a place they give the diameter and the circumference of a circle thing.

This is both misleading and not really on topic to this thread (subject = difference in meaning between probable and verŝajne). Here's a link in case you are interested in reading on this topic but in any case I would fully expect an ancient text to round numbers.

Back on topic -- kredeble is a great word for when you believe something to be true but aren't sure!

An interesting article. And if we count thickness of the rope (e.g. 0.1"), we get more precise value of pi.

pi=3 is not kredebla, but it is kredenda if it is in the Bible and if you think that holy books are to be interpreted literally.

In everyday world (ruled by Newtonian mechanics), one may consider probable and verŝajne as synonyms: probability above 50%.
Eble is used generally when the probability is under or equal to 50%.

Alkanadi:Binary or base1 - 1+1 = 10

In base 1, i.e. unary, 1+1=11 not 10. There is only one symbol in unary (base 1), hence the name. Binary is base 2. Unary (base 1) are basically tally marks.

Alkanadi:If you start counting with the number zero, such as computer programming, where the index marks the position of the number - 1+1 = 3

Pardon my french, but this is boolshit. If you are at index 1 (no matter whether 0-based, 1-based or whatever-based) and add 1, you end up at index 2...

----

There are 10 types of persons in the world:
Those who understand ternary,
those who don't understand ternary,
and those who mistake ternary for binary.

Alkanadi:

...But I can know the absolute truth of the statement "1+1=2" or "The sky appears blue to me"...

Is the sky blue? What about at night when it is black? What about when it rains? What about overcast days when it is grey? Color is determined based on reflected light, and the sky produces its blue color through filtration. Can it still be called blue? What if you are in space looking down at the earth, then the sky is transparent. Maybe, a better statement is that the sky appears to be blue less than 50% of the time from an earthly perspective. Even if you say that the sky appears blue to you, that can be debated because believes are a result of socialisation.

Is 1+1 = 2 ? It depends on the mathematical theory that is applied.

Binary or base1 - 1+1 = 10

Concatenation - 1+1 = 11

Boolean - It is true that 1+1 = 13 is a false statement

One hole plus another hole equals 1 hole - 1+1 = 1

If you start counting with the number zero, such as computer programming, where the index marks the position of the number - 1+1 = 3

I hope that I am not annoying you. No, I don't have autism. I am just too nerdy to let that one slide.

I was relying on the common understanding of the meaning of "1+1=2". My statement has the same meaning in every base system, I just used the most common system. Mathematics does not depend on the base used, and the mathematical value of one added to one is always two.

I specifically added "...appears blue to me...", which completely removes the issue of whether the sky is actually blue or not from the truth equation. As long as it looks blue to me, this statement is true. I suppose I could have chosen any number of examples:
"I have two eyes."
"I typed this sentence using a keyboard."
"This is a gramatically correct sentence."
"According to Google Now, it is 66 degrees Fahrenheit at my location right now"
...

On an interesting tangent: "This statement is false"

kaŝperanto:"1+1=2". My statement has the same meaning in every base system, I just used the most common system. Mathematics does not depend on the base used, and the mathematical value of one added to one is always two.

QFT. The only thing that may change is the representation.

...: the first occurrence of probable in the Tekstaro is in 1978 (John Wells) ...

I think this late date reflects the fact that the word "probability" became widely used in some languages under the influence of the "New Maths" school curriculum, which was developed in the United States, when challenced by the Soviet Union's space programme. This "Sputnic shock" maths, composed mainly of set theory, probability theory and vector calculation, was shortly afterwards introduced in many countries.
Sweden as well as Finland adopted it for a period of time, but never changeed the traditional name of "probability".
If you translate "probable" into Swedish, it will be "sannolik". This word is composed of two parts: "sann", which means thrue, and lik, which means "alike" or "similar", thus exactly as "versxajna" is. It is used in all registers, always. So I do not see that there should be any difference in Esperanto either between the two words.