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the ‘r’ issue

ya L_B_, 13 Desemba 2014

Ujumbe: 24

Lugha: English

L_B_ (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 13 Desemba 2014 6:36:21 asubuhi

Anybody know how to pronounce the 'r'?
Please share your acrobatics with me.
Appreciate that ridego.gif

Larmel (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 13 Desemba 2014 10:53:46 asubuhi

You can sometimes tell where Esperantists come from by the way they pronounce the letter R! The typical English or French pronunciation is not correct for Esperanto - although if you pronounce it that way, people will still be able to understand you. I found this video on YouTube which explains how to pronounce the R used in Italian and Spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9eN2B7Wj68, which is the same as the sound used in Esperanto. I see there are several videos on YouTube explaining how to trill your Rs, and you might find some of them helpful.

Foje eblas diveni, de kie venas esperantisto, per lia/ŝia maniero prononci la literon R. La tipe angla aŭ franca prononcoj ne estas ĝustaj por Esperanto - sed se vi prononcos ĝin tiel, la homoj tamen komprenos. Mi trovis jenan filmeton en YouTube, kiu klarigas, kiel prononci la italan aŭ hispanan R, kiu estas sama kiel la sono uzata en Esperanto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9eN2B7Wj68. Mi vidas, ke en YouTube troviĝas pluraj filmetoj, kiuj klarigas kiel "ruli" la sonon R. Eble kelkaj el tiuj estos helpaj por vi.

marbuljon (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 13 Desemba 2014 6:08:52 alasiri

I've also found this confusing. When I was looking for info, some lessons said this and some said that. While I understood that the r should be rolled, r's are rolled in different ways in different languages (ex. rolled with sound, rolled without sound, rolled short or long).

Also I'm not sure if it's polite to ask here and hijack the thread - but how is ŭ pronounced?? I keep hearing "most people can't pronounce ŭ" but I haven't even seen/heard an explanation of how it should be, then.

vikungen (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 13 Desemba 2014 7:46:32 alasiri

L_B_:Anybody know how to pronounce the 'r'?
Please share your acrobatics with me.
Appreciate that ridego.gif
I've read and heard that the "r" can be correctly pronounced either guttural as in French or rolled like in Norwegian, and I guess Spanish etc. but that it should not be pronounced as in English. I myself have no trouble understanding people using neither guttural nor rolled, I find the rolled being the most commonly used, but I personally think the guttural French "r" sounds better in some instances but that's just me. On the other hand the english "r" sounds a little funky in Esperanto.

And to Marbuljon.

The "ŭ" is pronounced just as the "u" except for that it is only used in diphthongs? It is not treated as a independent vowel as to where to put the pressure in pronounciations.

That's why ankaŭ is pronounced: Ankaŭ instead of ankAŬ, ankOraŭ instead of ankorAŭ etc.

and the ŭ and u are mostly pronounced as the swedish "o", not as the norwegian or swedish "u" or German "ü", and then the Esperanto "o" is pronounced "å".

Hundo = Hondå etc.

Bruso (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 13 Desemba 2014 10:24:17 alasiri

vikungen:
I've read and heard that the "r" can be correctly pronounced either guttural as in French or rolled like in Norwegian, and I guess Spanish etc. but that it should not be pronounced as in English.
Hmmm. Where did you hear the French r recommended? I've heard otherwise. In particular, Jordan in "Being Colloquial in Esperanto" suggests it can be confused with the ĥ.

I think a flapped single-r and a trilled double-r (as in superrigardo or Interreto) is best.

Rujo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Desemba 2014 12:29:22 asubuhi

I think the closest pronunciation of "r" in Esperanto is the same intervocalic "r" of Portuguese, Spanish and Italian. I don't know about other languages. Possibly, in the Slavic languages there are similar sounds like the "r" of these neo-Latin languages.

chkube (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Desemba 2014 2:55:31 asubuhi

Bruso:
Hmmm. Where did you hear the French r recommended? I've heard otherwise. In particular, Jordan in "Being Colloquial in Esperanto" suggests it can be confused with the ĥ.
In french "r" can sound like "ĥ" after "k" (and after "f" or "t" maybe), but in other cases, even if it's still guttural, I think it's not so bad.

cannona (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Desemba 2014 4:05:52 asubuhi

L_B_:Anybody know how to pronounce the 'r'?
I've not had a problem reproducing this sound, but my 9 year old daughter struggled with it a bit. I read somewhere that a good way to learn it is by saying the word "butter" fast. Then, slowly start losing the "bu", and once you've managed that, start practicing saying that with various Esperanto words. It only took my daughter a few minutes to get it, but my wife is a native Spanish speaker, so that might have given her an advantage, as she certainly heard it a great deal when growing up.

Luck.

sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Desemba 2014 10:45:21 asubuhi

Cannona, that may not help our Chinese friend if he has learnt the English (ie Queen's English) pronunciation of 'butter'

Fenris_kcf (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 14 Desemba 2014 12:33:45 alasiri

L_B_:Anybody know how to pronounce the 'r'?
No, we all do it wrong.

Really: What do you anticipate to get as response to this question? And why do you post in the English forum?

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