Mensagens: 8
Idioma: English
Bruso (Mostrar o perfil) 18 de janeiro de 2015 20:52:11
"Ĉu la knaboj estis afablaj pri ĉio ĉi tio?"
I'm not sure whether "ĉi" goes with "ĉio" or "tio", but either way it doesn't make sense: Were the boys affable concerning everything this?
Bemused (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de janeiro de 2015 12:24:41
Bruso:This sentence is from the 1968 version of Kellerman Reed's grammar (quite different from the out-of-copyright 1910 version available on Project Gutenberg).Perhaps: Were the boys affable (polite, easy to talk to) with everything concerning this ?
"Ĉu la knaboj estis afablaj pri ĉio ĉi tio?"
I'm not sure whether "ĉi" goes with "ĉio" or "tio", but either way it doesn't make sense: Were the boys affable concerning everything this?
Lacking context this is just a wild guess.
Bruso (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de janeiro de 2015 12:29:18
Bemused:No context. It's just a list of numbered sentences illustrating vocabulary and grammar.
Lacking context this is just a wild guess.
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de janeiro de 2015 13:09:09
Ĉu la knaboj estis afablaj pri ĉio ĉi tio?There is nothing unusual about ĉio tio - meaning all that (or all this depending on context)
What is more unusual in modern Esperanto is inserting a 'ĉi', though in Zamenhofian texts your can find this. Later texts seem to use just ĉio ĉi - which makes sense as the ĉi itself has a pointing function like the ti-words.
What could be the meaning of ĉio ĉi other than all this?
nornen (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de janeiro de 2015 20:36:09
sudanglo:I concur completely.Ĉu la knaboj estis afablaj pri ĉio ĉi tio?There is nothing unusual about ĉio tio - meaning all that (or all this depending on context)
What is more unusual in modern Esperanto is inserting a 'ĉi', though in Zamenhofian texts your can find this. Later texts seem to use just ĉio ĉi - which makes sense as the ĉi itself has a pointing function like the ti-words.
What could be the meaning of ĉio ĉi other than all this?
I start parsing at "tio" being a neutral demonstrative: this thing, that thing, yon thing.
Then I join the "ĉi" denoting proximity: this thing right here.
Then I join the "ĉio" being a quantifier: this whole thing right here, all of this abstract concept right here. Or short: all this.
Hence: Are the boys happy about all this?
As to your question: I fail to spot any semantic difference between "ĉio ĉi" and "ĉio ĉi tio" (or "ĉi ĉio" ).
Bruso (Mostrar o perfil) 19 de janeiro de 2015 23:06:35
sudanglo:The problem I was having was that the -o tabelvortoj are treated in some sense as nouns and this looked like a noun modifying a noun, which isn't good Esperanto. So I was wondering if the ĉio and tio came from different parts of the sentence and were only together because of word-order flexibility.
What could be the meaning of ĉio ĉi other than all this?
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 20 de janeiro de 2015 11:52:23
Those words in Esperanto that don't need to carry a gramatika finaĵo (hodiaŭ, dum, tiel, pri etc) can adopt a variety of grammatical roles.
But in any case the linking of 'nouns' is not unknown in Esperanto.
En la urbo Parizo ...; la internacia lingvo Esperanto
Mi forsendis lin, la sentaŭgulon
Saluton Sinjoro Profesoro
Nia Prezidanto, amiko al ĉiuj, ...
Mi ricevis doublan pagon, dek frankojn
and in a compound word: La venonta Esperanto-kongreso.
As to whether ĉio and tio could stand together but 'come from different parts of the sentence', I am at a loss to think of a good example.
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 20 de janeiro de 2015 11:52:23