Bemused:We interrupt this totally fascinating discussion on the links between gay pride, Nazism, and Esperanto, for a post that is in some small way related to the original topic of this thread.

In answer to the OP's post, here is a link to a site that provides University level education free for anyone who speaks English and has net access.
All you need to do is translate that content to Esperanto and you have created a means for non English speakers to gain a world class education......once they learn Esperanto.
Have fun.

Let the lunacy resume.

Thank you sir. I went through most of the courses but they are belonging to the universities. I think they have the copyright. We cannot just translate it.

Besides, the learners need some guidance from the instructors too. Like the Edukado.net, has the teacher training progromme and also on few subjects but not on major and burning needed subjects, management and administration.

If the scout can do that why the Esperanto associations can not team up to set up a website like edukado to earn some money, provides some jobs and rescue more souls from falling into traps of bogus universities which advertised in most countries.

It is a matter of how Esperanto speakers view Esperanto, as the international language just like other languages, English, Spanish, French instead wasting time in arguing in homosexual and religions.

The ex president of UEA, Dr John Wills is a gay and he lead UEA for few years.

Esperanto is a hobby or an international language, it is the caused of those who are still thinking as the hobby club instead of getting Esperanto to help more people just as what this site said.

It looks like there is not other alternatives but to let the poor people suffering and the elites and hobbists are dominating the Esperantujo without thinking BIG, esperanto is an international language, all kinds of words, good and bad are in used.

Not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe a step in the right direction? http://monda.eu/eo/modules

se:If the scout can do that why the Esperanto associations can not team up to set up a website like edukado to earn some money, provides some jobs and rescue more souls from falling into traps of bogus universities which advertised in most countries.

If you think you've found a way to do it and even earn money ... do it. Who or what is hindering you?

johmue: Also again: If you want that to happen, make it happen. Do you think "we" or what you call "the Esperanto community" – whatever that is – have been waiting for you to diagnose "the problem"?

Johmue, I'm going to discuss the issues and problems from my perspective and bring my ideas to the table, just as you do. I'm not a non-participant, sitting on the sidelines and Monday-morning quarterbacking, I'm an Esperantist...just like you.

That's not the way "the Esperanto community" works. There is no "we" that is "showcasing" something. There are only individuals who do things, for example putting songs on youtube.

I disagree. There ARE organized, global Esperanto associations that represent the movement. While localized sub-groups and individuals can do what they will, these overarching entities--provincial/national/international are making decisions that affect the way the movement as a whole is perceived.

Do you REALLY not realize that, at the same time as involved Esperantists are more active and engaged than ever before (thanks, in part, to the Internet), the overall image of Esperanto in many places ranges from "What's that?" to "It was a failed experiment". Then, if and when people DO become aware of the movement, they're turned off and lose respect by what they see...well, can you blame them?

If rather than seeing the delightful, great things happening within the movement, the public image being highlighted involves such things as making a point of having congresses in Communist countries and giving the appearance of being a leftist political machine, hosting major youth events where condoms are passed out or that bawdy song was showcased, marching in a "gay pride" parade while carrying signs linking homosexuality with a national Esperanto community...I simply can't believe you don't see the public perception problem this type of thing causes.

Don't expect any of those individuals to care when you say "We should ... We need ..."...Esperanto is not a business with a public relation department taking care of Esperanto's public image....

No, Johue, that's not the way it works. The major Esperanto entitities I'm referring to DO have a public image function. The first step to solving a problem is to recognize that one exists. If we want to see Esperanto succeed, then we need to move away from nobody caring and start listening to the "we should's" and the "we need to's" and bringing fresh ideas to the table. THEN, people who agree can get on board with it (or people can continue with the status quo--which is what you seem to think is just fine). But either way, if you keep doing what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always got. You can't just dismissively pass everybody with a concern off as complainer and ignore them and expect anything to change.

Thank you sir. I went through most of the courses but they are belonging to the universities. I think they have the copyright. We cannot just translate it.

Besides, the learners need some guidance from the instructors too. Like the Edukado.net, has the teacher training progromme and also on few subjects but not on major and burning needed subjects, management and administration.

If the scout can do that why the Esperanto associations can not team up to set up a website like edukado to earn some money, provides some jobs and rescue more souls from falling into traps of bogus universities which advertised in most countries.

This is easily doable. There's open source software called Moodle where you can create online courses.

If there are interested and willing content creators, I might bankroll the project.

Polaris:Johmue, I'm going to discuss the issues and problems from my perspective and bring my ideas to the table, just as you do. I'm not a non-participant, sitting on the sidelines and Monday-morning quarterbacking, I'm an Esperantist...just like you.

So I am asking you for the fifth time or so: where are your contributions to the movement? Just post one link. So far I've only seen you talking about what is going wrong.

I disagree. There ARE organized, global Esperanto associations that represent the movement. While localized sub-groups and individuals can do what they will, these overarching entities--provincial/national/international are making decisions that affect the way the movement as a whole is perceived.

But at the end of the day, the global asocciations are not implementing that much. UEA is basically administering itself. This discussion was already going on when I for the first time was in the UEA-komitato during UK in Havanna, Cuba (uhh, a communist country, what will the public think of Esperanto?). Its more the individuals that are coming up with "showcasing" material. Also organizations like E@I.

Maybe this is going to change slowly after Mark Fettes and Martin Schäffer got active in the estraro. I am a member of the UEA council and I do my best to help making things work.

Do you REALLY not realize that, at the same time as involved Esperantists are more active and engaged than ever before (thanks, in part, to the Internet), the overall image of Esperanto in many places ranges from "What's that?" to "It was a failed experiment". Then, if and when people DO become aware of the movement, they're turned off and lose respect by what they see...well, can you blame them?

I disagree that they are turned off and lose respect. That's not at all my experience. Might be different in Oklahoma, though.

I simply can't believe you don't see the public perception problem this type of thing causes.

I can comment on that again:

• Congresses in communist countries: no problem. Even the contrary. "Oh there's even Esperanto activity in Cuba? Oh really? Must be really a big global movement."
  
• Bawdy song showcased: Nothning was showcased. Someone did this parody on stage probably somewhat spontaneously and someone else put it on youtube. Common that's not showcasing. Should it be censored?
  
• Passing out condoms: some 20 years ago when I was at high school we made fun of collecting condoms that political parties handed out at their election campain booths. The conservatives had black ones, the Greens green ones, the social democrats red ones. I don't remember about the liberals, probably yellow.
  
• Gay pride parade: I work for the Bosch, a technology company operating world wide. They have a LGBT-network which is supported by the board. See here. AFAIK they also were on the Gay pride parade in Germany in the name of Bosch, but I am not sure about that. And Bosch surely is taking care of its public image.

The first step to solving a problem is to recognize that one exists.

So where are your fresh ideas? I am still waiting. Where are your approaches to solve the problem, that you are recognizing?

But according to my experience in the Esperanto movement, your approach on collectively recognizing the problem, discussing fresh ideas, agree on what to do does not work. The Esperanto movement is far too heterogenious. You will end up in endless discussions. But if you simply start implementing what you think is needed, some people might join you.

But either way, if you keep doing what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always got.

Well, I am doing things that I find useful. I try to contribute where I feel that I can do a helpful contribution. If I was to critisize myself, I would rather say that I am starting to many new projects or commiting myself to too many activities so that I can not do everything really well. And I not at all get what I always got.

You can't just dismissively pass everybody with a concern off as complainer and ignore them and expect anything to change.

I don't care for complainers. And I don't expect things to change. I try to change things. I try to make Esperanto more valueble. I contribute according to my capabilities and energy that I have left after I earned my daily living.

makis:

Thank you sir. I went through most of the courses but they are belonging to the universities. I think they have the copyright. We cannot just translate it.

Besides, the learners need some guidance from the instructors too. Like the Edukado.net, has the teacher training progromme and also on few subjects but not on major and burning needed subjects, management and administration.

If the scout can do that why the Esperanto associations can not team up to set up a website like edukado to earn some money, provides some jobs and rescue more souls from falling into traps of bogus universities which advertised in most countries.

This is easily doable. There's open source software called Moodle where you can create online courses.

If there are interested and willing content creators, I might bankroll the project.

This is excellent! I would be MORE than willing---anxious, actually--to collaborate on preparing course work that could be beneficial. Having received my master's degree through an on-line international program accredited through a university in the United States (Oklahoma), I'm very familiar with both international and on-line education. I'm currently working on my doctorate through a similar program--though it is not international.

One problem would be acquiring Esperanto textbook or even on-line library material. Perhaps the first phase would be to A. determine what coursework would be worthwhile, and B. either create or translate the instructional material needed for this coursework. This could, indeed, turn out to be a delightful, international endeavor that experienced Esperantists could make happen.

Polaris:This is excellent! I would be MORE than willing---anxious, actually--to collaborate on preparing course work that could be beneficial. Having received my master's degree through an on-line international program accredited through a university in the United States (Oklahoma), I'm very familiar with both international and on-line education. I'm currently working on my doctorate through a similar program--though it is not international.

One problem would be acquiring Esperanto textbook or even on-line library material. Perhaps the first phase would be to A. determine what coursework would be worthwhile, and B. either create or translate the instructional material needed for this coursework. This could, indeed, turn out to be a delightful, international endeavor that experienced Esperantists could make happen.

Finally an approach. That's what I wanted to see all the time. I recommend when working on course material consulting the archive of Scienca Revuo. Last year we made the whole archive available online. Also don't hesitate consulting us on terminology issues.

And as I said, I am waiting for submissions for Scienca Revuo. What is your doctoral topic?

Johmue...at this point, I'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore. If, in your opinion, you think things are "just fine" and that there is no public image problem to address, and you're determined to dismiss issues or concerns asserting otherwise, then I guess we've both had our say, and it's time to let readers decide what they're going to do with what we've presented. I would only ask you to consider one thing: just as you seem to think where I live somehow skews my views or reflects my environs, could the same thing be said about you?

You're obviously quite involved with the movement-which is admirable. One of the most compelling complaints is that the Esperanto elites (vis-à-vis UEA) are out of touch with ordinary, average Esperantists who are not part of their "inner-circle". I'm not saying that is entirely true, nor am I slamming anybody, but this conversation makes me wonder if there isn't more truth to that than we may like to admit.

The old adage that "sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees" asserts that you can be so close to a situation that you lose objectivity and don't realize what's really going on. Could that apply here? Just a thought--do with it what you will.

Polaris:I would only ask you to consider one thing: just as you seem to think where I live somehow skews my views or reflects my environs, could the same thing be said about you?

Of course. The place where you live or places where you lived or societies you live or lived in, have a big influence on how you see the world. I can't judge what the society is like in Pauls Valley, but I think that in places I am more familiar with, so Germany and many the European countries, Esperanto's public perception would not severely suffer from the things you are critisizing.

You're obviously quite involved with the movement-which is admirable. One of the most compelling complaints is that the Esperanto elites (vis-à-vis UEA) are out of touch with ordinary, average Esperantists who are not part of their "inner-circle". I'm not saying that is entirely true, nor am I slamming anybody, but this conversation makes me wonder if there isn't more truth to that than we may like to admit.

That is definitely a problem. That's why they founded the UEA-council during UK in Reykjavik in 2013. Its task actually is to keep the UEA-estraro in touch with the actual Esperanto-speakers out there. But it turns out that this task is really difficult for a variety of reasons. Last year in Buenos Aires there were kind of interesting discussions on the significance of UEA and UK for the Esperanto movement.

My personal oppinion on that is, that the meaning of UEA and UK is or will be changing quite drastically. Now all the structures and also a large number of UEA members consider UEA and UK to be the platform of Esperanto. Every active Esperanto speaker or local group would proudly present their activities to UEA and UEA would print everything in their journal or in the jarlibro. So the whole information would go via UEA and if you want to do something with Esperanto, UEA is your place to go. But obviously that's not how it works. Many if not most of the Esperanto activities are nowadays outside of UEA. Look at lernu! to begin with. Also endeavors like Muzaiko and SES – really important contributors to the Esperanto movement and to its public reputation – outside UEA. Vinilkosmo – someone called it "Hollywood of Esperanto" – outside UEA. As for my own endeavors, music and podcasting ... what do I need UEA for? For my teaching work I have an exam from UEA, at least. ISAE, the organization behind Scienca Revuo is a suborganization of UEA. But we also sometimes ask ourselves why.

That's the situation now. The interesting question is, what will the situation be and what should it be like. What is the actual task of UEA? Service to its members? Representing Esperanto in the public. Promoting Esperanto in the public? I'm not going to talk about my opinion on that. That would take far to long and I'm not sure myself .

Maybe you want to listen to the last edition of Varsovia Vento. Irek is doing an interview with Stefan MacGill. They are talking about the current situation of UEA and approaches developing it. (And then listen also to the second part, where Eva and I present our project kernpunkto )