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Over 50% of Esperanto speakers are above average intelligence

Alkanadi-tól, 2015. február 22.

Hozzászólások: 27

Nyelv: English

Alkanadi (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 22. 16:11:34

Scratch:It all depends on the distribution. Let's say for example we have 5 people with IQ values of 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 10. Their average IQ would be 33/6 or 5.5. Only 2 of the 5 has above-average intelligence. Everyone else is below average.
Yah. You are right. I was assuming that a large population would marginalize an uneven distribution. But, you are right. It will never be exactly half.

nornen (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 22. 16:16:13

Alkanadi:
Scratch:It all depends on the distribution. Let's say for example we have 5 people with IQ values of 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 10. Their average IQ would be 33/6 or 5.5. Only 2 of the 5 has above-average intelligence. Everyone else is below average.
Yah. You are right. I was assuming that a large population would marginalize an uneven distribution. But, you are right. It will never be exactly half.
It is by definition. If you have an IQ Test and after testing your sample set, the median is NOT 100, then either the test is crap or it is not an IQ test.

Scratch (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 22. 17:56:03

nornen:
Scratch:Their average IQ would be 33/6 or 5.5.
Wrong again. The median IQ of a given set is by definition 100. Its standard deviation is 15. By definition. It is "standardized" and "normalized".

What you are saying is like: "Let's say we have a set of 5 red balls, out of which 3 are blue." Contradiction in terms.
I learned something new today. I didn't realize that IQ scores were standarized and normalized. In that sense, I am wrong. But I don't know how to regard the idea of standardizing and normalizing that way.

Of course, I still don't know if that really means we can say that half the population is in fact smarter than the rest, or that half the population is less intelligent. Along with the whole host of problems in what kinds of intelligence do IQ tests measure.

robbkvasnak (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 22. 18:21:06

Nichtsdestotrotz (none the less) [I really like the sound of that in German - it starts a discussion off on such an authoritative sounding way, hehe] I would venture to guess [nice English expression] that most Esperantists are more curious than the average population - otherwise they would not invest time and effort and some money into acquiring a language that will not bring them immediate monetary gain or local popularity. And that is probably at the root of our community self-describing as a bunch of weirdos. Which in my mind [ah, another English standing expression!] is def not a bad thing. I would rather be a weirdo than a boring, run-of-the-mill slob like my dear brother who spends his time guzzling beer and watching American football or shooting animals in the forest and nothing other than that. He and I cannot converse because he has no thoughts on anything but the aforementioned subjects - no political opinion at all, no social comments other than he would like to live in the woods all alone with his dog. He is not a bad person, and in the minds of his neighbors (where he lives they all seem to be a bit like that) not a weirdo.
So there is, me thinks, something going for Esperantists, hehe.

kaŝperanto (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 23. 19:12:33

I would put money on Esperantists coming primarily from the high side of the bell curve.

robbkvasnak (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 23. 19:41:34

When Graham Moore delivered his acceptance speech at the Oscars, we said that he felt that he was a weirdo as a kid but now he is a star. He told us to go on being "weirdos" - he was maybe not speaking directly to the Esperanto community - but, Graham, I heard you!

Alkanadi (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 24. 6:47:40

kaŝperanto:I would put money on Esperantists coming primarily from the high side of the bell curve.
I would agree with that. I can't imagine someone from the bottom of the curve would take on such a project.

But it also depends whether we are talking about left or right brain intelligence. Or, even more specifically, which areas of the brain we are talking about.

Then again, there are some autistic people who are incredibly skilled at learning languages, but I am not sure how well they would score on an IQ test.

kaŝperanto (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 24. 17:18:06

Alkanadi:
kaŝperanto:I would put money on Esperantists coming primarily from the high side of the bell curve.
I would agree with that. I can't imagine someone from the bottom of the curve would take on such a project.

But it also depends whether we are talking about left or right brain intelligence. Or, even more specifically, which areas of the brain we are talking about.

Then again, there are some autistic people who are incredibly skilled at learning languages, but I am not sure how well they would score on an IQ test.
I would put language learning almost as an equal-opportunity subject for the brain types. It is in fact one subject that all of our brains are made to understand (at least for healthy people). Right brainers have an advantage in learning/deducing the logical patterns and structure of the language, while left brainers have the creative/artistic edge. I would also say that the logical/regular aspects of Esperanto are not especially helpful when moving from beginner to intermediate/advanced levels. At some point you have to think/feel in the language.

IQ tests are iffy in their relevance to actual intelligence, but as I understand it they are useful in certain fields of study. It is my feeling that intelligence capability is probably about the same for most people, while the desire/belief required to apply and grow that intelligence is what varies greatly.

sudanglo (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 25. 10:43:51

Robb, this whole issue of the unfortunate preponderance of 'marginals' in Esperantujo is not dealt with by a defence of 'weirdness'.

The logic is that as long as Esperantujo is perceived as a club for weirdo's, it will discourage 'normals' from joining and prevents Esperanto from going mainstream.

So it has nothing to do with whether per se it is a good or a bad thing to be 'unusual'.

Kirilo81 (Profil megtekintése) 2015. február 25. 13:44:01

Those talking about the bad image of Esperanto speakers as weirdos, gay rights supporters etc. I invite to read the discussion on reddit - there are many questions and comments, and virtually nothing about weirdness or political leftiness (only one neutral question about political tendencies amnog E-ists).
It seems to me the Esperantists' image of the image of Esperanto is wrong. okulumo.gif

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