RiotNrrd:Someone claiming that English is similar in difficulty to your average constructed language on an Esperanto forum may as well be wearing a neon "TROLL" sign. Why are you even responding to such a dumb statement?

I've already reported this user using the "Spam" function, and I encourage others to do the same. The user's inanity on the English and Russian subforums and elsewhere makes his intentions clear. Сущее притворство.

sudanglo:
What was it, in the mood of times then, that is absent today?

What is it that you want to evaluate, exactly? If you want empirical answers, you should begin to make clear topics and match them with measurable indicators.

Of course you may like to make fuzzy talk, for the sake of talk itself. Fine with me, that's pleasant to talk with other people, as we are very social creature, aren't we?

sudanglo:
Could the current climate of self-censorship of expression of the differences between populations in fact be inimical to the idea of Esperanto?

Esperanto is not primarily a vehicle for the dismantling of cultural barriers, but a provision of a neutral space in which peoples of different cultures may inter-communicate with no threat to their identity.

What do you mean with neutral space? Isn't that "neutral" notion self-delusive? Don't you mean a will of a fair exchange zone, which may be described as a strong ethical/political engagement?

Also, what do you mean with "no threat to identity"? Learning new things change minds and world representations. So obviously, learning anything and especially new ways to express and explore thoughts is a "threat to identity". Cognitive abstraction that sustain the "identity tool" proves itself as pragmatically useful as phenomenologically absurd.

sudanglo:
Is the perception of a requirement for such a neutral space diminished when we can't talk freely about difference, or when the reality of cultural barriers is not admitted?

How would you define a society where you can freely talk about a subject, and how your perception of your society differs from that?

sudanglo:It is not wholly germane to this thread but a perfect example of the silliness of ignoring difference is the Eurozone, the attempt to impose a common currency in Europe over diverse economies.

And their are economics diversity between all kinds of professional activities, should they all use a different currency? Or to stay on a purely geopolitical subdivision, shouldn't every region, city, street, house have it's own currency, as at all scales one can assert that there's "attempt to impose a common currency in it over diverse economies"?

I think esperanto should get rid of this hippie aura it has, it's just counterproductive.
And yes, nationalism definitely helps, only nationalists in Italy cared about preserving the language. The hippies just love to spit on their heritage and are unable to obtain anything.

iu:
I think the actual issue here is more of culture and politics. Back in the day we were trying out all kinds of idealistic things, and since it was new there was no reason not to hope for the most out of Esperanto. Now we're quite calloused against most kinds of idealistic notions for society/government, because we have seen them fail miserably. The need is also not as pronounced among the first world superpowers, because English appears to be here to stay as an IAL.

It really depends what you name an "International auxiliary language". And also, at which scale you evaluate "here to stay". Think of all this still interesting philosophical works which are written in Latin or Ancient Greek. You can of course often find translations for the most famous one, but even good translations will have a different evocation field. Now imagine that instead of survival¹ language, that kind of works would have used a planed language as easy to learn as Esperanto.

What will be easier to read in 2000 years, a text in English or Esperanto?

¹ I use survival rather than "natural", as it seems rather absurd to tell that a language is "out of nature", and what seems relevant is the production mode of the language. Survival may not be the most accurate, as language such as Latin and English have both a heterogeneous collection of lexemes accumulated through time and post-produced speculated grammar rules.

People today are also far less idealistic in general. The vast majority of people sleepwalk through life. It is "cool" to not give a shit about learning in school, and most who do get themselves educated do so for the sole purpose of landing a high-paying job that they will most likely end up hating. A great many people waste away in front of a TV or computer when they get home from "work" and do practically nothing creative in their life. It is easier to just live in a virtual world and neglect our responsibilities in reality.

Do you have an example of the self-censorship that you are speaking of? I find it hard to believe that people are running around with a bunch of repressed opinions about foreigners. Our Russian comrades are a great example of people who are unafraid to say what they want to say.[/quote]

psychoslave:

kaŝperanto:...

...

Haha, you apparently forgot to remove the second half of kaŝperanto's quote that came after the part you were commenting on, so it looks like you're just repeating what he said as your own words; I do that myself sometimes and then have to remove it. Thankfully lernu, unlike some forums, lets you edit posts even after they're more than two hours old.

efilzeo:I think esperanto should get rid of this hippie aura it has, it's just counterproductive.
And yes, nationalism definitely helps, only nationalists in Italy cared about preserving the language. The hippies just love to spit on their heritage and are unable to obtain anything.

That seems awfully like an overgeneralising stereotype, as well as an unfair, emotive characterisation of "hippies" (a term itself broad enough to be difficult to apply consistently - not all hippies, or people who are called "hippies", are necessarily similar).

What makes you think Esperantujo at large has a "hippie aura"? Is this based on careful, considered personal observations? Or are Esperantists just going along with some imagined, supposed stereotype (which I have actually almost never heard espoused among non-Esperantists) in their self-labelling?

RiotNrrd:

bartlett22183:

Alkanadi:

Elhana2:...

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Someone claiming that English is similar in difficulty to your average constructed language on an Esperanto forum may as well be wearing a neon "TROLL" sign. Why are you even responding to such a dumb statement?

Well, maybe it is, I mean, I've never averaged the level of difficulty of all constructed languages; maybe if you did average that of toki pona, Esperanto, Volapük, Klingon, Solresol, Elvish, Blissymbolics, Lojban, Wilkins's Philosophical Language, and every other language ever constructed, the result might be similar to English . But Esperanto is definitely not .

shouldn't every region, city, street, house have it's own currency,

You are quite right to point out that the 'economy' of certain parts of a single country may be different.

However it makes all the difference if you have a single government for the region that uses a common currency.

It is a different kettle of fish when you have separate sovereign governments within your common currency area with their own differing fiscal policies.

Were the Greeks not locked into the Eurozone, they could simply default on external debt, or let a floating drachma take the strain and reach the level appropriate to their economy.

Cfail0814:I don't want to live in a world where everyone is the same, let's all hold hands and sing kumbayya.

But exactly that happens at some Esperanto events. Its kind of Slavic tradition to do so long before Hippies relaunched that tradition. People included inside the circle they have to kiss somebody of dancing folks to join dancing folks. Sametime they 'push' kissed person into middle of dancing circle. At Esperanto events I ever flee as rapid as possible out of danceflooer if I will hear song La Bamba playing. Sorry about, but I dislike to get snoged by unknown folks.

Cfail0814:I think that nationalism would help esperanto.

Well, it needs lot of persisto/ struggle/ resisting/ endurance/ Jihad to spread some (political) idea.