I am at duolingo as it happens. You call the forum 'supportive', but it is many people who are beginners advising other beginners and it's not always the right guidance. There are arguments and trolling there too. It's not the golden chalice, it's just different and new.

Vestitor:I am at duolingo as it happens. You call the forum 'supportive', but it is many people who are beginners advising other beginners and it's not always the right guidance. There are arguments and trolling there too. It's not the golden chalice, it's just different and new.

No, it's not. ::rolls eyes::

bpbatch:Snobby, demeaning posts like this is, truly, another reason that the Lernu community has done virtually diddly-squat to encourage people to use, resonate with, and collaborate in Esperanto. So what if a komencanto wants to throw an idea out like this? Why can't this community step back and either (1) encourage by saying, OK, neat idea, but it won't garner a lot of support, but at least you're thinking about the language, or (2) just say nothing? One new learner isn't going to create some grand uprising that destroys codified Esperanto rules.

Because a beginner coming to a French website looking for friendly support for their proposed reforms will definitely find that friendly support that they are looking for, right?

A beginner just came away from this thread thinking that saying 'as instead of "estas" is acceptable normative Esperanto because it appeared in someone's poem a hundred years ago. Um chalk that up as a win?

jean-luc:

bpbatch:Snobby, demeaning posts like this is

Right ! how snobby you have to be to be to expect a minimum of knowledge of a language before starting to propose changes ?

Did I quote your post? No. But since you acknowledge you are part of this attitude problem, then yeah, you are a snob.

erinja:

bpbatch:Snobby, demeaning posts like this is, truly, another reason that the Lernu community has done virtually diddly-squat to encourage people to use, resonate with, and collaborate in Esperanto. So what if a komencanto wants to throw an idea out like this? Why can't this community step back and either (1) encourage by saying, OK, neat idea, but it won't garner a lot of support, but at least you're thinking about the language, or (2) just say nothing? One new learner isn't going to create some grand uprising that destroys codified Esperanto rules.

Because a beginner coming to a French website looking for friendly support for their proposed reforms will definitely find that friendly support that they are looking for, right?

A beginner just came away from this thread thinking that saying 'as instead of "estas" is acceptable normative Esperanto because it appeared in someone's poem a hundred years ago. Um chalk that up as a win?

Glad that you feel good squashing people who are just thinking creatively, who is not in a position of any authority whatsoever to make universal changes with one post at Lernu. You people really need to check yourselves with this little language instead of chasing people away.

Also, I can already see how friendly and supportive the Duolingo forums are, with messages like this one [found in practically the first thread I clicked on]. Guess it's time to go and smack down those Duolingo language snobs who are pooh-poohing people's awesome reform projects, eh?

"Esperanto is the only language I'm aware with this phenomenon of beginners thinking they are legitimate to not only say crap about a language, but also to insult its speaker and to want to change it, because they don't like some grammar points or think it doesn't fit their ideological agenda enough.

I never saw a beginner in french trying to convince other people to change its gender system and saying that people who don't want to follow them are sexists or whatever. They learn the language as it is. They may of course complain it's difficult and illogical (which is true), but they will not spend their time proposing reforms or using their own version of the language while saying it's still french.

Not giving the same treatment to esperanto is to consider that it is not a real language but just a toy.

As a side note, I kept a eye on the esperanto community for a time long enough to affirm that these people are its most toxic part, and by far, even before the zealot propagandists (who can be quite annoying)."

erinja:Also, I can already see how friendly and supportive the Duolingo forums are, with messages like this one [found in practically the first thread I clicked on]. Guess it's time to go and smack down those Duolingo language snobs who are pooh-poohing people's awesome reform projects, eh?

"Esperanto is the only language I'm aware with this phenomenon of beginners thinking they are legitimate to not only say crap about a language, but also to insult its speaker and to want to change it, because they don't like some grammar points or think it doesn't fit their ideological agenda enough.

I never saw a beginner in french trying to convince other people to change its gender system and saying that people who don't want to follow them are sexists or whatever. They learn the language as it is. They may of course complain it's difficult and illogical (which is true), but they will not spend their time proposing reforms or using their own version of the language while saying it's still french.

Not giving the same treatment to esperanto is to consider that it is not a real language but just a toy.

As a side note, I kept a eye on the esperanto community for a time long enough to affirm that these people are its most toxic part, and by far, even before the zealot propagandists (who can be quite annoying)."

Thanks for sharing your perspective. The next time Lernu begs for more money during its annual pledge drive to remodel the site--and then never actually do it, year after year--I'll copy and paste your quotes to justify my lack of generosity.

bpbatch:
No, it's not. ::rolls eyes::

No it's not what? I recall now that I've actually seen you in the duolingo threads (similar name, same avatar) behaving in the very same manner you are at the moment, in short: cocky. Duolingo and Lernu are different sorts of websites. People staring there have turned up here. The forum threads there are also full of people suggesting things could be different and others explaining why they can't, so stop exaggerating.

Vestitor:

bpbatch:
No, it's not. ::rolls eyes::

No it's not what? I recall now that I've actually seen you in the duolingo threads (similar name, same avatar) behaving in the very same manner you are at the moment, in short: cocky. Duolingo and Lernu are different sorts of websites. People staring there have turned up here. The forum threads there are also full of people suggesting things could be different and others explaining why they can't, so stop exaggerating.

LOL! Nice try--lie, divert, and deflect. You are right in only one regard--these are different sites. Duolingo has an excited community of new learners and brings in traffic; Lernu looks like a 1970s textbook that someone converted to an online format, and the old men that wrote these antiquated lessons and drew these poor bell-bottomed Ana Pana cartoons are still justifying why their way will always be their highway. Good luck with that.

bpbatch:

LOL! Nice try--lie, tired blah blah blah

Why are you here then? Just for the troll satisfaction?