orthohawk:The numbers game is just that; a game.

I agree. In my opinion most long-lasting motivation should be looked for inside character and lived culture of foreign language itself, not some vague numbers of its users.

spreecamper:

orthohawk:The numbers game is just that; a game.

I agree. In my opinion most long-lasting motivation should be looked for inside character and lived culture of foreign language itself, not some vague numbers of its users.

+1.

How do I bookmark this quote for easy retrieval next time someone starts on about numbers of speakers?

spreecamper:

orthohawk:The numbers game is just that; a game.

I agree. In my opinion most long-lasting motivation should be looked for inside character and lived culture of foreign language itself, not some vague numbers of its users.

While I agree that trying to precisely determine the numbers of users is nearly pointless, knowing that you will actually have people to regularly talk to is a big motivating factor in learning as well; if at any given moment, only 10 Esperanto speakers in the entire world are online actively using the language, then some might deem it pointless to learn the language. Esperanto can get lonely.

altindiefanboy:While I agree that trying to precisely determine the numbers of users is nearly pointless, knowing that you will actually have people to regularly talk to is a big motivating factor in learning as well; if at any given moment, only 10 Esperanto speakers in the entire world are online actively using the language, then some might deem it pointless to learn the language. Esperanto can get lonely.

Interestingly, for most Esperantists I'm acquainted with, the number of speakers was not a consideration in their decision to learn the language.

I can't say it's a particularly important issue for me personally - sure, it would be nice to know that there are 1+ million Esperantophones in the world, but even if the number is 100k, that's still fine with me. Most likely, I will never know for sure - and that's also fine with me. Shrug, move on.

I am of the opinion that Esperantujo is, to a large extent, self-selecting, such that only more intellectually curious, independent-minded people will become interested. Your "average Bob", on the other hand, probably isn't going to be swayed by the prospect of 2 million Esperantists, or perceived pedagogical value of Esperanto, or its aesthetic merits, or its ease, etc. - no matter how good the publicity for Esperanto is (assuming there is any publicity at all, which is rare).

Something else - I don't know what - is attracting those independent-minded types to Esperanto. Not numbers.

seveer:I find this all very interesting but I am still curious about the original topic. Is there really nobody on these forums with any data on the trends in the number of Esperanto users in the last, say, twenty years? I would like to know if this number is growing in (a) nominal terms and (b) as a fraction of the population. No links? Old threads on this?

This is the number who register with Lernu
Registered Total: 198 913
last week: 391
this week: 366
yesterday: 48
today: 21

Total number of users on Duolingo learning Esperanto
69.6K Learners are signed up on Duolingo to learn Esperanto. Just track this number over time to get a rough estimate of growth.

It could be because they already speak Esperanto and are just using the internet more. Or it could be that these are brand new people to Esperanto

spreecamper:

orthohawk:The numbers game is just that; a game.

I agree. In my opinion most long-lasting motivation should be looked for inside character and lived culture of foreign language itself, not some vague numbers of its users.

Very good point. Quality is far superior to quantity.

What is better? 5 million people who speak Esperanto very poorly and can only say basic things (in other words, 5 million people who are at my level), or 5 hundred people who speak it fluently with precision?

La entuta nombro de Esperanto-parolantoj estas ne precize konata. Nur eblas taksoj pri la kvanto de la tutmonda parolantaro. Ekde 2001 okazis popolnombradoj en pluraj landoj, ekzemple Hungario kaj Litovio, kiuj kalkulis ankaŭ la nombron de Esperanto-parolantoj (4.565 por Hungario, 844 por Litovio); en 2011 en rusia censo oni kalkulis 992 parolantojn de Esperanto[55].
La plej multaj taksoj pri la tutmonda parolantaro varias inter 100 mil kaj 1,5 milionoj. La diversaj taksoj verŝajne priskribas malsamajn lingvonivelojn kaj malsaman oftecon de uzado: 100 mil celas la kvanton de homoj, kiuj regule uzas Esperanton, 500.000 inkluzivas tiujn, kiuj de tempo al tempo uzas la lingvon, 2 milionoj (Culbert) ankaŭ tiujn, kiuj jam dum multaj jaroj aŭ jardekoj ne plu uzas la lingvon. Pli altaj taksoj (ĝis aŭ super dek milionoj) inkluzivas supozeble ankaŭ tiujn, kiuj nur eklernis la lingvon; ili supozeble ankoraŭ rememoras kelkajn vortojn, sed fakte ne scipovas praktike utiligi la lingvon.
Se la kriterio estu tute flua altanivela lingvouzo, komparebla al denaska nivelo en aliaj lingvoj, la taksoj eĉ reduktiĝas je unu aŭ kelkaj dekmiloj. (Kp. la artikolon pri la nombro de Esperanto-parolantoj.)
https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto#Statistiko...
The total number of English-speakers are not accurately known. It can only be estimated of the amount of the global speech. Since 2001, there was calculated people in several countries. For example, in Hungary and Lithuania, who numbered well the number of English-speakers (4.565 for Hungary, 844 for Lithuania); in 2011 in the Russian census they counted 992 speakers of English [55].
Most estimates of the global speech varies between 100 thousand and 1.5 million. The various estimates probably describe different lingvonivelojn and a different frequency of use: 100 thousand seeks the amount of people who regularly use Esperanto, 500,000 includes those who occasionally use the language, 2 million (Culbert) also those who are already in many years or decades no longer use the language. Higher ratings (up to or over ten million), including presumably those who have just started learning the language; They allegedly still remember a few words, but in fact did not know how to practice take advantage of the language.
If the criterion is completely fluent high level in the language use, comparable to a native level in other languages, the estimates, even reduced to one or a few thousand. (See. The article about the number of English-speakers.)
https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto#Statistiko...

Bemused:

spreecamper:

orthohawk:The numbers game is just that; a game.

I agree. In my opinion most long-lasting motivation should be looked for inside character and lived culture of foreign language itself, not some vague numbers of its users.

+1.

How do I bookmark this quote for easy retrieval next time someone starts on about numbers of speakers?

Open some notepad.

Copy url of regarding thread page:
http://eo.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=1...

Make right mouse click (Mac user have to press & hold 'ctrl' key before) on regarding message 'reply' button and copy the link:
http://eo.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/sendado.php?...

Copy 279520 number (at the end of the reply button link)

Insert 279520 number with # before at the end of 'page 5' link:
http://eo.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=1...

Final pointer: numbers game

altindiefanboy:While I agree that trying to precisely determine the numbers of users is nearly pointless, knowing that you will actually have people to regularly talk to is a big motivating factor in learning as well; if at any given moment, only 10 Esperanto speakers in the entire world are online actively using the language, then some might deem it pointless to learn the language. Esperanto can get lonely.

In my opinion motivation based on speakers numbers is quite fleetingly, interest in foreign language itselves is more deepen, less fleetingly. Best motivation I found out that is to speak with others who have same interests like oneselves even if these others have more poor language skills.

seveer:

Vestitor:
I also resent...

Clearly.

Vestitor:...no-one here has answered you to satisfaction, it must be a matter of scientific ignorance...

I'm done riding this merry-go-round and I think you are increasingly mischaracterizing my statements.

Yes. It's not like you did that with the first quote above at all is it? Like I said, if you think everyone else has failed and you have the tools, go and do it.