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trouble with the ant-,int-, ont- and at-, it-, ot- suffixes

de bdlingle, 25 de julio de 2015

Aportes: 15

Idioma: English

bdlingle (Mostrar perfil) 25 de julio de 2015 16:58:11

I have been struggling with trying to understand how to use these suffixes effectively and correctly. Can someone explain to me, as clearly as possible, how to use these?

michaleo (Mostrar perfil) 25 de julio de 2015 17:57:05

bdlingle (Mostrar perfil) 25 de julio de 2015 18:35:11

Thanks for the link but I am still confused

orthohawk (Mostrar perfil) 25 de julio de 2015 19:17:24

bdlingle:Thanks for the link but I am still confused
A prerequisite is understanding just what a "participle" is. Not being snarky, honest. Does thee know what one is? How it's used?

Once thee's got that down, it's a matter of translating the English form into Esperanto or vice versa. Of course, given the lack of all but two versions of those forms in English, sometimes it takes phrases and clauses for the English version.

There's a glass of water on the table and I just came in after a weeding session in the garden and am hot and thirsty. I walk toward the table:
Mi estas trinkonta la akvon (I am about to drink the water, am going to drink the water)
La akvo estas trinkota (the water is about-to-be-drunk or going-to-be-drunk); jen la trinkota akvo (here is the about-to-be-drunk water)

I've got the glass to my mouth and water is going down my throat:
mi estas trinkanta la akvon. I am (in the process/middle of) drinking the water.
la akvo estas trinkata. The water is (in the process/middle of) being drunk.

The glass is empty and back on the table:
Mi estas trinkinta la akvon. I have drunk the water (lit: I am having-drunk the water)
La akvo estas trinkita. The water is drunk (lit: the water is having-been-drunk)

If thee can wrap thy head around the phraseology, translating the participles as (verb)-ing, being (verb)-ed, having-(verb)-ed, having-been-(verb)-ed, about-to-(verb), and about-to-be-(verb)-ed should get thee thru any need of the Esperanto participles.

bdlingle (Mostrar perfil) 25 de julio de 2015 20:08:37

So I think I understand it in certain way in Esperanto. I have to tell you, that English(subject) was not my best subject in school, so some of the concepts went over my head and never understood them completely. But, from what I've seen in your explanation, if I wanted to say "Mi diras" in a different way with the participles, I could say " Mi estas diranta". Is that close, because if not then I need more help.

mbalicki (Mostrar perfil) 25 de julio de 2015 20:45:27

I like short explanations; maybe it'll be helpful also for you.

Let's have a verb with a subject and an object: Knabo manĝas pomon. We have a boy (knabo, subject) who's eating (manĝas, verb) an apple (pomon, object). We could describe our two nouns from this sentence in the following way (in regard to the verb): (subject) boy is the eater and (object) apple is being eaten.

In Esperanto one would express this relation to the verb using participles: active for the subject, since he's acting upon the apple, and passive for the object, since upon it the action is being acted (both present, since our verb manĝas is in present tense). So knabo estas manĝanto and pomo estas manĝata. I used the nominal participle (a noun, -o) for the subject, because I'm describing the identity of the boy, and the adjectival participle (an adjective, -a), because I'm describing the feature of the apple, but you're free to put your thoughts differently.

Did I manage to clear this up? Participles other than present (so past and future) and other than nominal and adjectival (so adverbial) work similarly, however many constructions are rarely used, being not that useful. But tell me if you'd like me to elaborate on any of them in particular.

bdlingle (Mostrar perfil) 25 de julio de 2015 20:54:44

I think I understand! I will let you guys know if i have any other problems with this matter. Thanks

Tempodivalse (Mostrar perfil) 26 de julio de 2015 03:16:00

Just to clarify, esti + active adjectival participle is used much much less frequently than the English continuous tenses. In 99% of cases, the simple -is/-as/-os tenses are preferred.

For example - "I am eating" should be Mi mangxas, not Mi estas mangxanta. While the latter is not incorrect, it sounds quite clumsy and unnecessary to the proficient Esperantist.

In fact, in the beginning/intermediate stages, I would say you would hardly ever need to use the active adjectival participles. And even in fluent speech/text, outside of more literary contexts, you don't see them too often.

Note that this doesn't apply to participles that are used without esti.

bdlingle (Mostrar perfil) 28 de julio de 2015 01:42:23

Tempodivalse:Just to clarify, esti + active adjectival participle is used much much less frequently than the English continuous tenses. In 99% of cases, the simple -is/-as/-os tenses are preferred.

For example - "I am eating" should be Mi mangxas, not Mi estas mangxanta. While the latter is not incorrect, it sounds quite clumsy and unnecessary to the proficient Esperantist.

In fact, in the beginning/intermediate stages, I would say you would hardly ever need to use the active adjectival participles. And even in fluent speech/text, outside of more literary contexts, you don't see them too often.

Note that this doesn't apply to participles that are used without esti.
ok, thanks I was worried I had to use them for a certain reason, but I do know how to use them as adjectives

AmericanBull (Mostrar perfil) 31 de julio de 2015 20:31:12

Tempodivalse:Just to clarify, esti + active adjectival participle is used much much less frequently than the English continuous tenses. In 99% of cases, the simple -is/-as/-os tenses are preferred.

For example - "I am eating" should be Mi mangxas, not Mi estas mangxanta. While the latter is not incorrect, it sounds quite clumsy and unnecessary to the proficient Esperantist.

In fact, in the beginning/intermediate stages, I would say you would hardly ever need to use the active adjectival participles. And even in fluent speech/text, outside of more literary contexts, you don't see them too often.

Note that this doesn't apply to participles that are used without esti.
Would the use of participles be more dominant in literary work/translations, and the spoken form would be more likely to use the "efficient" form, using manĝas instead of estas manĝanta?

Joke: Mathematicians are efficient. They're so efficient, they even spell efficient efficiently. They can spell it with only four letters. L A Z Y.

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