メッセージ: 7
言語: English
Jimt (プロフィールを表示) 2008年1月31日 23:13:43
I am a total 'komencanto' as far as Esperanto is concerned, so forgive me for possibly sounding stupid
I am going through a lot of the lesson material on this site. So far it has all been very clear and helpful, until I reached one particular exercise which is really bugging me.
It concerns Lesson 7, Demonstration 5 of 'La Puzzlo Esperanto'.
The assignment asks me to translate "My friends and your parents are not friends." into Esperanto.
So far, I have been taught that the plural of 'friend', when it is intended to be a genderless reference, should be 'geamikoj'.
Oddly enough, the puzzle verification registers my answer as being Wrong when I enter: "Miaj geamikoj kaj viaj gepatroj ne estas geamikoj."
I used the 'show hint' option because I couldn't figure out what the right answer was. Oddly, it gave this as the right answer: "Miaj geamikoj kaj viaj gepatroj ne estas amikoj.
Notice that the last word for 'friends' is missing the prefix 'ge'. Why is this? And is my own version not also a correct use of the word?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Filu (プロフィールを表示) 2008年1月31日 23:28:59
Maybe because the first "geamikoj" clearly refers to the persons, of both genders, while the second expresses how members of each group is considering members of the other group. Imagine something like "My two girlfriends are not..." (friends or girlfriends?)
Amike salutas vin
Filu
Jimt (プロフィールを表示) 2008年1月31日 23:36:16
I suppose this will become more evident when I learn to read the language more intuitively.
Right now I am still analyzing the grammar to much when trying to understand it; At least for some words.
Thanks for the insight though. Much appreciated.
erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2008年2月1日 3:30:07
The most common correct answers are pre-programmed into those, but it doesn't mean that every single possible correct answer has programmed in (nearly impossible, due to Esperanto's flexible word order).
So if you're marked wrong on something, it might be that your answer is correct but uncommon, or technically correct but sounds weird for another reason (like in this case). Or of course it might actually be wrong
But don't hesitate to come to this forum with your questions. I won't go so far as to say that there are no dumb questions. But certainly in language learning, if you don't understand something, it is dumb not to ask! (and there are many beginners in this forum, so it is likely that someone else is wondering about the same thing) 
mnlg (プロフィールを表示) 2008年2月1日 9:20:27
Jimt:I used the 'show hint' option because I couldn't figure out what the right answer was. Oddly, it gave this as the right answer: "Miaj geamikoj kaj viaj gepatroj ne estas amikoj.I don't know anything about the course programs on this site, so I cannot help you on that.
The prefix "ge-" marks the fact that you clearly want to specify that elements from both sexes are included. Sometimes that's not necessary. In the sentence "Policistoj kaptis ŝteliston", "policistoj" does not necessarily mean "policemen", it could be a more general "police officers". Of course you could say "Gepolicistoj", if you want to clearly convey the fact that there were officers of both sexes involved.
RiotNrrd (プロフィールを表示) 2008年2月1日 16:33:20
"My 'both gender friends' and your parents are not 'both gender friends'."
Or
"My 'both gender friends' and your parents are not friends."
To me the first sentence doesn't make sense.
The first occurrence of "friends" in the original sentence is referring to a specific set of people (i.e., your friends, some of who are male and some of who are female), whereas the second occurrence is referring to a general state of being (i.e., being friends). I think that's why "geamikoj" isn't used for the second occurrence - it is more applicable to a specific set of people than it is to a state of being.