Messages: 16
Language: English
richardhall (User's profile) February 12, 2008, 3:48:16 PM
"When the banner is unfurled, all reason is in the trumpet"
I'd be grateful for any thoughts...
mnlg (User's profile) February 12, 2008, 6:05:52 PM
Kiam flago etendiĝ[ad]as, trumpeto tenas racion.
A nice proverb, by the way. I like flags a lot, but I dislike their overuse.
richardhall (User's profile) February 12, 2008, 11:38:05 PM
If I pressed you, would you choose etendigxas or etendigxadas? And why, of course!
mnlg:Here's my attempt. Perhaps too literal, but you might use it as a start:
Kiam flago etendiĝ[ad]as, trumpeto tenas racion.
A nice proverb, by the way. I like flags a lot, but I dislike their overuse.
mnlg (User's profile) February 13, 2008, 12:23:49 AM
richardhall:Thanks for that. I like the way you've approached it.Thank you!
If I pressed you, would you choose etendigxas or etendigxadas?Either.
And why, of course!Why not?
I would perhaps use the form in -adas. In its English version, the proverb is phrased in the passive ("is unfurled") but it strikes me as very active. It is not about the occasional flag flying by itself, but the conscious action of unfurling, i.e., the ubiquitous or frequent recourse to flags, that is seen as a potential source of concern. I still think there might very well be better ways to express that in Esperanto, but if I really had to keep to my first attempt, that's what I would do.
richardhall (User's profile) February 13, 2008, 12:05:56 PM
mnlg:I would perhaps use the form in -adas. In its English version, the proverb is phrased in the passive ("is unfurled") but it strikes me as very active. It is not about the occasional flag flying by itself, but the conscious action of unfurling, i.e., the ubiquitous or frequent recourse to flags, that is seen as a potential source of concern. I still think there might very well be better ways to express that in Esperanto, but if I really had to keep to my first attempt, that's what I would do.I suppose it must be possible to use 'unfurl' in the active voice in English, I don't think I've ever heard it used that way. (And I've never come across the verb "to furl" either, possibly because I move in the wrong circles
) Anyway, your reasoning for choosing the -ad- form was very clear and helpful. Thanks again. 
erinja (User's profile) February 13, 2008, 2:40:28 PM
richardhall (User's profile) February 13, 2008, 3:57:25 PM
erinja:I have only seen "furl" in the context of sailing, where people still talk about furling sails.
leonarde (User's profile) February 13, 2008, 9:34:03 PM
mnlg:The use of entendiĝi in this translation would seem reasonable based on its building blocks, but, put together, they apparently add up to something else. Based on the lernu.net dictionary, etendiĝi means "to run" or "to span," not "to become extended" or "to become stretched out" as we would expect it to. My question is, what does it mean to "run" or "span" in the context of this word, and what is the real way to say "unfurl"?
Kiam flago etendiĝ[ad]as, trumpeto tenas racion.
mnlg (User's profile) February 13, 2008, 9:42:53 PM
La maro etendiĝas ĝis la horizonto.
and I think it might reply to your question.
leonarde (User's profile) February 13, 2008, 10:21:35 PM
mnlg:This use seems to be more in line with "span" than "unfurl."
La maro etendiĝas ĝis la horizonto.
How does "malpakiĝi" (to become unpacked) work? Or maybe "malenpakiĝi" (to become unwrapped/unravelled/unpacked)? Do these suggested terms seem more or less accurage than "entendiĝi"?