I read the following statement on the net by a certain well-known kabeanto :

'For many peoples in the world, Esperanto and English are equally difficult, and so Esperanto has nothing special to offer. At the UK in Beijing in 2004, I met numerous Chinese who, after studying English and Esperanto for about the same amount of time, could converse comfortably in English, but had many problems with Esperanto.'

Is anyone able to answer the above argument from first hand experience? I'm not convinced of it myself, as I suspect strongly that Claude Piron, for example, would not have agreed. But I have wondered myself sometimes whether E-o is in fact easier than other languages given the phenomenon of eternaj komencantoj . For example someone studying French with Michel Thomas might pick up the verbs more easily than using traditional methods of learning lists of verbal conjugations.

I have no specific first-hand experience in this regard with Chinese people. In my personal experience, it is easier to have a meaningful conversation with a beginner in Esperanto than a beginner in English. Putting grammar aside for a second (in English you can mangle grammar royally and still be understood), in Esperanto it is easier to speak with a limited vocabulary, because you can use a root and a suffix to get across your idea. That's just my opinion. I cannot speak for non-native speakers of English, but as someone who has studied both Esperanto and national languages, I found it easier to talk to people in beginner-level Esperanto than in beginner-level Italian and Yiddish (in my case).

The statement you cite conveniently fails to mention the psychological element in the equation. That is, if I decided to learn a language like Chinese, I would feel hesitant to practice it on a Chinese person, because I would feel ashamed of butchering their language. With Esperanto, it is easier to feel comfortable practicing it with other speakers. It is a language that is equally everyone's and no-one's. It is less intimidating to practice it, because the greatest likelihood is that the person you are speaking to is also not a native speaker, and probably still has vivid memories of what it feels like to be a beginner.

Incidentally, I know the person you are referring to, personally. I am not quite sure why he continues to involve himself in Esperanto-related discussions; perhaps he simply likes being inflammatory? In any case, things that he says are usually a mix of facts that no one disputes, personal opinions that set an unreasonable standard for the vast majority of people, and pure vitriol. I've had several conversations with him since he kabeis, but then I realized that there was simply no point, so I don't even bother reading what he writes anymore. I am not really interested in acrid debates with people who have already made up their minds; I will never convince them, and they will never convince me. The bottom line for me is that I personally feel like I have gotten a lot out of Esperanto. Whatever Esperanto's flaws, whatever flaws in the community that supports it, whatever the overstatements in Esperanto propaganda, I don't much care, because I have gotten so much enjoyment out of it.

I've heard this criticism leveled against Esperanto, and it's just plain silly.

Except for the Ĥ sound (which is rarely used), and trilled R's (which are encouraged, but not required) Esperanto has a subset, not a superset, of the sounds in English. Therefore if someone can pronounce English words, they can pronounce Esperanto words.

Esperanto has a considerably simpler grammar than English. Therefore from a grammatical point of view, if someone can learn English, they can learn Esperanto even faster.

From a vocabulary point of view, it is likely that someone from a European background would learn Esperanto faster than someone with an Asian background, simply because the Esperanto roots are heavily drawn from European languages. But that wouldn't make any difference coming at it from the Asian side - both Esperanto and English would appear equally foreign. The main difference would be which language requires learning fewer words? Esperanto wins again on this point.

Logically, English cannot be easier to learn than Esperanto, because English has a more complicated grammar, more sounds (some of which I am told are very difficult to pronounce for some non-natives), and a much larger vocabulary. In all ways, English is harder.

It would be nice to hear someone from Asia chime in and tell us what their real-life experience has been, although I have a pretty strong suspicion that their experiences would match my reasoning. If not, I'd be interested to hear in what ways English was easier to learn.

In any case, I've read a lot of that kabeanto's pages too, and came to the conclusion that he's not worth bothering with. It seems to me that he's got some axe to grind with Esperanto, and he'll just keep on grinding no matter what evidence comes along to contradict him. I don't think things like "logic" or "evidence" really have much to do with it. If I decided that Esperanto was a waste of time, I would just drop it. He seems incapable of letting go. There may be more issues there than meet the eye.

I cannot imagine one single aspect of E-o that would be harder to learn that its counterpart in English. I am aware that English is not a difficult language (when it comes to grammar, English is pretty straight forward). However, nothing matches the simplicity of a totally regular language. Even if somebody claims that E-o pronunciation is not the easiest (statement with which I would personally disagree), at least it is 100% phonetic, unlike English!
After a couple of weeks learning esperanto online, I was able to hold a basic conversation. I know that the fact that I already speak other european languages, makes it a lot easier for me to learn esperanto, but COME ON! to be able to converse in just a couple of week! beat that! That being said, I haven't been able to make much more progress since, but that is totally my fault, not Esperanto's.
Anyway, I think mosts people who would argue that learning esperanto is not worth the effort, wouldn't use it's difficulty (or lack thereof) as a reason. The most common argument I get from people is that they don't see its usefulness.
Anyway, my final thought is that anybody who actively opposes and criticizes a totally harmless phenomenon such as this, has issues, serious issues. Let's suppose for a second, just for the sake of argument, that E-o is extremely difficult and utterly useless. What the $#@$ does this person care? Knowing an extra language (which ever that may be) is ALWAYS a plus and a great cognitive excersize!

Gxis!
Ed

I agree with all the theoretical points made as to why E-o ought to be easier than English. The kabeinto I quoted thinks that E-ujo is like a cult, and attacks it the way that reformed alcoholics fight the 'demon drink' (recall the bottle-smashing speech by Burt Lancaster in Elmer Gantry). I have corresponded with him in the past.

But my question is not about theoretical apologetics or why his attitude might be less-than-satisfactory. My question is about actual people without backgrounds in European languages. I've posted a question in the Chinese-speaking forum in Esperanto which may hopefully elicit some interesting responses.

As for the kabeinto, there but for the grace of heaven...

edmoreira:I am aware that English is not a difficult language (when it comes to grammar, English is pretty straight forward).

Straight forward?? I would have to disagree. It is my first language and I am glad because I would have a terrible time learning English.

I think that there is hardly any other germanic or romanic language that is as confusing as English. The grammar, the spelling, and a huge number of exceptions makes it nearly impossible to learn the language to a "nearly perfect" level.

People who say that Englisch is an easy to learn language, usually only scratched the surface i.e. they only know the basics.

When I stayed in the US, I once tried a rather difficult test of English. In some cases I wasn't sure about the right answers, so I asked several of my co-workers who speak it as their mother tongue.

Guess what! Although they all were PhDs (well, that doesn't say too much), they gave completely different answers and in many cases they were completely wrong.

I would think that only very few people who also dedicate a big part of their life to languages like English, German, or French might say that they speak and write the language perfectly.

That said, Esperanto with its clear rules seems like a revelation to many people who want to learn a foreign language.

Gerald

EL_NEBULOSO:
People who say that Englisch is an easy to learn language, usually only scratched the surface i.e. they only know the basics.

I'm agree with that point.

I gave my own opinion about this theme in this thread. And I haven't changed my mind. The only easier thing about english nowadays is to find teachers and people to practice the language with.

My experience with chinese people speaking english was "bad". All the people I found, spoke english with many problems.

Ĝis, Novatago.

From my point of view the “eterna komencanto” fenomenon is mainly due to the lack of “real time” practice opportunities. We are all rather scattered and unevenly distributed around the world and no matter how “virtualized” and Internet fully integrated we might be, we still live in the real world. Nothing can substitute direct contact, laughs, jokes, curses, insults, flattery, mockery, etc. Communication is much more than grammar and vocabulary. The gestures, the hundreds of barely perceptible changes of mood, the different tones and even the silences are indispensable. It’s crystal clear that Esperanto is a simpler and easier to learn language than English, but the whole planet is nowadays so overexposed to English that you have to be deaf, blind and dumb to be impermeable to it. 90% of the movies and news I watch are in English, 70% of the medical articles I read are in English, 50% of the books I read are in English… Am I a perfect English speaker? Yeah in my dreams!!! Far from it, though, I speak English a lot better than Esperanto. Don’t get me wrong: I do love Esperanto! I immensely enjoy reading, hearing and “crocodiling” (nur kokodriloj ne kokodrilas, sed esperantumas) the language but I deeply regret the lack of chances to use it much more often.

Miland:Esperanto has nothing special to offer.

I would have not waste my time to learn something which is not usefull.

I'm proud to speak with you : us americans, english, russians, germans, spanish, italians...with a common language which belongs to everybody.

I would have never speak with anybody from an another country in and out the Web, like that.

So this point is false because it offers to me a lot.

That's right, Eo is not so easy as i thought, but i don't know any other language (except dog, cat languages ) with which you can dialogue so fast.