sudanglo:

Robb, I have argued in the past that Esperanto is an intercultural language, and actually carries no culture in itself in the way that national languages do.

(I suspect that when English is used as lingua franca between non-native speakers it functions similarly. The problems arise when English is used with native speakers.)

The obvious question then is what role for pragmatics in Esperanto?

Would a German Esperantist say 'Vi sidiĝos kaj ĝuos la flugon'. Somehow, I think not.

The thing is Esperanto clearly is coloured by the different groups who use it, depending on their native language. It is surely natural to sometimes transfer structures (word order, vocab choices)) from one language to another. If we consider that some people would be speaking/using Esperanto alongside only one other native language, the possibility increases. In this way it does end up carrying national cultural influences.

Rotary, Lions, etc are service organizations. People join them to volunteer in their communities. It's not about what kind of tangible benefit they offer the members. The current generation of young people are actually more likely to volunteer than previous generations, but the model offered by Rotary club pretty much completely discourages young people from joining, and existing members from recruiting young people.

Essentially Rotary et al attempt to recruit business people with personal ties to existing club members. Basically, this recruit is an ethically minded business man, and he goes out and talks his regular business man friends into giving money to the club in one way or another. He also pays a ton of club fees in various way. The money then funds local scholarships, helps the blind, buys food for children, buys vaccines for maternal neonatal tetanus-- whatever your local club decides basically.

In an economic situation where the middle class is shrinking it's obvious why more people don't join. And tho young people are more likely to volunteer, it's obvious why recruiting efforts aren't being targeted at people who have $30,000 in student loans.

It's pretty interesting but I don't think it's relatable to Esperanto's situation.

The thing is Esperanto clearly is coloured by the different groups who use it, depending on their native language. It is surely natural to sometimes transfer structures (word order, vocab choices)) from one language to another. If we consider that some people would be speaking/using Esperanto alongside only one other native language, the possibility increases. In this way it does end up carrying national cultural influences.

But that does not match with my experience at international congresses.

The thing that makes me think that, for example, a particular Esperantist might have German as his/her mother tongue has been the accent, not the structures or vocab used.

sudanglo:But that does not match with my experience at international congresses.

The thing that makes me think that, for example, a particular Esperantist might have German as his/her mother tongue has been the accent, not the structures or vocab used.

Interesting. In most other languages it is characteristic word order and problems like false friends that betray a person's native language, along with accent of course.

There are about a zillion possibilities for someone's native language in the Esperanto world, so accent is the best indicator.

I have met people who used some different constructions or different vocabulary words but some of it is down to personal preference and who you learned words from, more than native language. Some of it is based on native language but you wouldn't be able to guess which unless it was something very specific to that particular language, and you'd have to be familiar enough with that person's language to catch it.

It is not always the case that accent in Esperanto is a reliable guide to someone's mother tongue.

At the UK in Lille last summer I was fascinated to subsequently discover that I woman I spoke to and who had a recognisably French accent in Esperanto was actually a native speaker of English.

She had learnt her Esperanto while staying in France and picked up the accent there.

Also I remember being told by John Wells (professional phonetician) that my own Esperanto accent had for his ear detectable elements of German pronunciation. I was during my youth a regular visitor to IS's in Germany.

Anyway on the matter of differences in usage being influenced by culture, Esperanto is in a somewhat different position to other (national) languages.

Firstly, Esperanto is far less idiomatic and alternative ways of saying the same thing are often acceptable - not limited to what native speakers actually say as in the case of national languages.

And secondly, there is a well established norm of being sensitive to what is internationally comprehensible, which leads to a literalness in expression. Consequently, Esperanto tends not to be a carrier of cultural norms in the ways that national languages are.

sudanglo:
At the UK in Lille last summer I was fascinated to subsequently discover that I woman I spoke to and who had a recognisably French accent in Esperanto was actually a native speaker of English.

She had learnt her Esperanto while staying in France and picked up the accent there.

Also I remember being told by John Wells (professional phonetician) that my own Esperanto accent had for his ear detectable elements of German pronunciation. I was during my youth a regular visitor to IS's in Germany.

Haha, I can relate to that. Although my native language is French, my Esperanto is often influenced by English structures and word order while my accent has a definite Spanish influence.