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Translation Question

de Oŝo-Jabe, 2008-februaro-24

Mesaĝoj: 27

Lingvo: English

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2008-februaro-24 04:13:29

I was trying to translate the following phrase: "Don't let them immanitize the Eschaton." My attempts at translation is below.

Ne lasu fino de ĉio per la agoj de ili.

or

Ne lasu ili igi la fino de ĉio

billpatt1942 (Montri la profilon) 2008-februaro-24 05:24:48

Oŝo-Jabe:I was trying to translate the following phrase: "Don't let them immanitize the Eschaton." My attempts at translation is below.

Ne lasu fino de ĉio per la agoj de ili.

or

Ne lasu ili igi la fino de ĉio
Suggestion: Ne permesu ke ili finigos cxion.

It is always difficult to translate without a context. Without reading your translation, I wouldn't have a clue what immanitize means. Sounds like it could be an entertaining book(?), or a deep one.

Bill

Miland (Montri la profilon) 2008-februaro-24 12:10:39

I think you meant 'mmanentize the eschaton'. For those still mystified, here's a wiki article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_escha...

Reading this article, I interpret the phrase to mean, to try to realise a model of a idealised messianic age, beyond the end of this world as we know it, in this one.

If we interpret this eschaton as 'the world to come' , one possibility may be

'Ne provu krei la estontan mondon en ĉi tiun.'

Miland (Montri la profilon) 2008-februaro-24 12:12:53

Sorry, that's immanentize.

richardhall (Montri la profilon) 2008-februaro-24 12:58:54

'Immanentize' has to be one of the ugliest words ever coined in English. Hard to believe that anyone would use it. But wouldn't nunigi be an elegant translation in Esperanto?

Eschaton is tricky, lifted as it is straight from Greek. I'd suggest that it would be better to simply transliterate this: Eskato. It's a bit of technical jargon, so I reckon it is best left recognizable. Or what about 'Ĉio-fino' if we really must fully 'Esperantize' (!) it?

So my modest proposal would be
Ne permesu, ke oni nunigas la Eskaton.

There's a theological argument to be had about all this - but that would take alot longer than the translation question?

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-februaro-24 23:32:38

richardhall:So my modest proposal would be
Ne permesu, ke oni nunigas la Eskaton.
That would be "Ne permesu ke oni nunigu la Eskaton"

The -u ending here is important. Don't use -as or -os for that second verb (those tenses would make it either mean that the action is currently happening - in which case your efforts are pointless because it is already happening - or else, mean that the action is inevitable for the future, also rendering your efforts pointless)

richardhall (Montri la profilon) 2008-februaro-25 00:11:37

Thanks for the correction.

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2008-aprilo-16 19:56:31

Would "Ne permesu ke ili estos nuniganta la Eskaton." be an acceptable translation? (I'm still not sure whether it communicates that the 'Eschaton' is preventable (at least as caused by ~them~), as the original does)

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-aprilo-16 20:56:44

Oŝo-Jabe:I was trying to translate the following phrase: "Don't let them immanitize the Eschaton." My attempts at translation is below.
The real question is, how to translate "fnord"?

Keep in mind that there are two words in English, pronounced the same but spelled differently, that mean very different things.

Immanent:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immanent
Meaning "indwelling", usually only used in a theological sense.

Imminent:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/imminent
Meaning it could happen at any moment (though not necessarily soon).

The Principia Discordia uses the first, theological, sense, if I remember correctly. That is, to me, it means "don't let them make God dwell within the end of the world", i.e. don't let "them" (the Illuminati of course) make beliefs about the end of the world be the center of religious thought and action.

Ne permesu loĝigi Dion ĉe la fino de la mondo.

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2008-aprilo-18 20:19:25

trojo:The Principia Discordia uses the first, theological, sense, if I remember correctly. That is, to me, it means "don't let them make God dwell within the end of the world", i.e. don't let "them" (the Illuminati of course) make beliefs about the end of the world be the center of religious thought and action.
You bring up an good point, and "inherent" is pretty close to what immanent means. According to the Reta Vortaro "inherent" in Esperanto is "imanenta". So the sentence could be:

Ne permesu, ke ili imanentigu la Eskaton.

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erinja:The -u ending here is important. Don't use -as or -os for that second verb (those tenses would make it either mean that the action is currently happening - in which case your efforts are pointless because it is already happening - or else, mean that the action is inevitable for the future, also rendering your efforts pointless)
Does this mean that -u is both imperative, and ~something else~?

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