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Are Old Grammars and Learning Books Still Relevant?

af Starkmann, 27. feb. 2016

Meddelelser: 29

Sprog: English

Sfinkso (Vise profilen) 28. feb. 2016 10.11.02

I do not find Kellerman's grammar 'dry as dust' and both that and Fryer's 'The Esperanto Teacher' have useful short achievable reading exercises.

Vestitor (Vise profilen) 28. feb. 2016 13.59.44

Sfinkso:I do not find Kellerman's grammar 'dry as dust' and both that and Fryer's 'The Esperanto Teacher' have useful short achievable reading exercises.
You're right, Kellerman's grammar is good for people who (as Erinja wrote above) like to and can learn in this way.

I'm sure a number of people here hail from a time when school language learning was all about being drilled in grammar and sentence translation. I still have a French book we used at school (The Longman Second French Book or something like that) and it is good, but you need something easier to get you to that level. The problem when I was at school was that you were tossed into the deep end and people who took to languages easily flourished and the rest were left floundering.

It's not a coincidence that multimedia methods of language learning have flourished. Or that the 'for beginners' language books have appeared. If I compare my Teach Yourself Beginner's Portugese with the edition Teach Yourself published decades ago, the former is definitely more accessible than the latter. And likely to encourage a student to stick with it.

Maybe it's different for Esperanto, but I don't believe it's so different. There are many, many people who do not take to foreign languages as easily as others. Which is not to say the OP of this thread is one of those. I just think that too many language enthusiasts don't put themselves in the place of the average monoglot or a person who doesn't take to languages easily.

Starkmann (Vise profilen) 28. feb. 2016 16.34.14

Thanks for all the input. And this text is still reeeeealy teeeeny as I type! Reads fine, though, once posted.

I'm sorry if I implied (in the starting post of this thread) that I intended to learn Esperanto solely using grammars. No, not at all. I have been researching courses, grammars, programs, along with news sites, radio, online books, etc. — I want to be as familiar with the Esperanto environment as I can before I begin studying it.

As it stands, I'm done with the initial research, having collected and categorized many Internet links and downloadable resources I feel will be helpful. I'm one of those who loves grammar, and I'm really looking forward to getting into Ivy's in particular as a complement to some courses I have on my mind.

Thanks very much!

Keith

Sfinkso (Vise profilen) 28. feb. 2016 17.52.26

Starkmann:Thanks for all the input. And this text is still reeeeealy teeeeny as I type! Reads fine, though, once posted.

(Snip)

Thanks very much!

Keith
In most browsers, if the text is the wrong size you can make it larger or smaller by holding the CTRL key down and pressing the + or - key, 0 resets.

Starkmann (Vise profilen) 28. feb. 2016 20.41.46

Sfinkso: In most browsers, if the text is the wrong size you can make it larger or smaller by holding the CTRL key down and pressing the + or - key, 0 resets.
Oh, I was talking about typing in the box that opens when you click Reply or New Post; it's too small to try to adjust using the Ctrl trick. Once it posts, however, it's fine.

bartlett22183 (Vise profilen) 28. feb. 2016 21.03.24

Yes. Different individuals have different tastes and different preferences and needs. I myself am one of those who are fascinated by formal grammars and vocabulary lists, but I am totally aware that this approach to language may not suit everyone. Others may find other techniques more suitable. You have to find what is best for yourself.

However, to the best of my awareness, Esperanto grammar has not changed in the last ~129 years, although emphases and speaking / writing styles have shifted somewhat. If you learn Esperanto today, you should have no difficulty understanding writings from a century ago. (And I suspect that apart from some new vocabulary for modern terms and experiences, Zamenhof himself would have little difficulty with modern texts.)

erinja (Vise profilen) 29. feb. 2016 00.44.26

Starkmann:My questions: are these still relevant? If so, are there cautions to be aware of? Has some of, or enough of, the grammar changed to make these older works void now?
I forgot to answer your actual question.

One problem I have found in these old texts, believe it or not, is that some still contain typographical errors. So if something doesn't look quite right, please be aware that it may be a typo, and you can of course feel free to post to a forum like this one and say, hey, this book has a certain word X, is that correct?

Once or twice people have learned from these old text and encountered errors, not in the language (which has really not changed, other than a few changes in style preference) but in the actual typography.

This is particularly true if you learn using the Fundamenta Ekzercaro - which contains typos! - but since the Fundamento is "untouchable", even the typos are left in.

Starkmann (Vise profilen) 29. feb. 2016 03.36.53

erinja: I forgot to answer your actual question.

One problem I have found in these old texts, believe it or not, is that some still contain typographical errors. So if something doesn't look quite right, please be aware that it may be a typo, and you can of course feel free to post to a forum like this one and say, hey, this book has a certain word X, is that correct?

Once or twice people have learned from these old text and encountered errors, not in the language (which has really not changed, other than a few changes in style preference) but in the actual typography.

This is particularly true if you learn using the Fundamenta Ekzercaro - which contains typos! - but since the Fundamento is "untouchable", even the typos are left in.
Ah! I see. Thanks. Among the several item's I've downloaded, I'm namely interested in Kellerman's grammar, in The Esperanto Teacher (Fryer), and in The International Auxiliary Language Esperanto Grammar and Commentary (Cox).

As to the Fundamenta, is that this one - http://www.akademio-de-esperanto.org/fundamento/ek... ?

altindiefanboy (Vise profilen) 29. feb. 2016 03.55.37

Sfinkso:In most browsers, if the text is the wrong size you can make it larger or smaller by holding the CTRL key down and pressing the + or - key, 0 resets.
As someone who is very technically literate, I never knew that CTRL+0 reset the size on most browsers (works on Firefox, at least). I have used the other two shortcuts for years, but this is a new one to me, and I am loving it. Thanks!

Venkistido (Vise profilen) 29. feb. 2016 10.04.10

Vestitor:
Sfinkso: I still have a French book we used at school (The Longman Second French Book or something like that) and it is good, but you need something easier to get you to that level.
Wasn't there a 'Longman First French Book' ?

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