メッセージ: 29
言語: English
Vestitor (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月28日 13:59:44
Sfinkso:I do not find Kellerman's grammar 'dry as dust' and both that and Fryer's 'The Esperanto Teacher' have useful short achievable reading exercises.You're right, Kellerman's grammar is good for people who (as Erinja wrote above) like to and can learn in this way.
I'm sure a number of people here hail from a time when school language learning was all about being drilled in grammar and sentence translation. I still have a French book we used at school (The Longman Second French Book or something like that) and it is good, but you need something easier to get you to that level. The problem when I was at school was that you were tossed into the deep end and people who took to languages easily flourished and the rest were left floundering.
It's not a coincidence that multimedia methods of language learning have flourished. Or that the 'for beginners' language books have appeared. If I compare my Teach Yourself Beginner's Portugese with the edition Teach Yourself published decades ago, the former is definitely more accessible than the latter. And likely to encourage a student to stick with it.
Maybe it's different for Esperanto, but I don't believe it's so different. There are many, many people who do not take to foreign languages as easily as others. Which is not to say the OP of this thread is one of those. I just think that too many language enthusiasts don't put themselves in the place of the average monoglot or a person who doesn't take to languages easily.
Starkmann (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月28日 16:34:14
I'm sorry if I implied (in the starting post of this thread) that I intended to learn Esperanto solely using grammars. No, not at all. I have been researching courses, grammars, programs, along with news sites, radio, online books, etc. — I want to be as familiar with the Esperanto environment as I can before I begin studying it.
As it stands, I'm done with the initial research, having collected and categorized many Internet links and downloadable resources I feel will be helpful. I'm one of those who loves grammar, and I'm really looking forward to getting into Ivy's in particular as a complement to some courses I have on my mind.
Thanks very much!
Keith
Sfinkso (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月28日 17:52:26
Starkmann:Thanks for all the input. And this text is still reeeeealy teeeeny as I type! Reads fine, though, once posted.In most browsers, if the text is the wrong size you can make it larger or smaller by holding the CTRL key down and pressing the + or - key, 0 resets.
(Snip)
Thanks very much!
Keith
Starkmann (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月28日 20:41:46
Sfinkso: In most browsers, if the text is the wrong size you can make it larger or smaller by holding the CTRL key down and pressing the + or - key, 0 resets.Oh, I was talking about typing in the box that opens when you click Reply or New Post; it's too small to try to adjust using the Ctrl trick. Once it posts, however, it's fine.
bartlett22183 (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月28日 21:03:24
However, to the best of my awareness, Esperanto grammar has not changed in the last ~129 years, although emphases and speaking / writing styles have shifted somewhat. If you learn Esperanto today, you should have no difficulty understanding writings from a century ago. (And I suspect that apart from some new vocabulary for modern terms and experiences, Zamenhof himself would have little difficulty with modern texts.)
erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月29日 0:44:26
Starkmann:My questions: are these still relevant? If so, are there cautions to be aware of? Has some of, or enough of, the grammar changed to make these older works void now?I forgot to answer your actual question.
One problem I have found in these old texts, believe it or not, is that some still contain typographical errors. So if something doesn't look quite right, please be aware that it may be a typo, and you can of course feel free to post to a forum like this one and say, hey, this book has a certain word X, is that correct?
Once or twice people have learned from these old text and encountered errors, not in the language (which has really not changed, other than a few changes in style preference) but in the actual typography.
This is particularly true if you learn using the Fundamenta Ekzercaro - which contains typos! - but since the Fundamento is "untouchable", even the typos are left in.
Starkmann (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月29日 3:36:53
erinja: I forgot to answer your actual question.Ah! I see. Thanks. Among the several item's I've downloaded, I'm namely interested in Kellerman's grammar, in The Esperanto Teacher (Fryer), and in The International Auxiliary Language Esperanto Grammar and Commentary (Cox).
One problem I have found in these old texts, believe it or not, is that some still contain typographical errors. So if something doesn't look quite right, please be aware that it may be a typo, and you can of course feel free to post to a forum like this one and say, hey, this book has a certain word X, is that correct?
Once or twice people have learned from these old text and encountered errors, not in the language (which has really not changed, other than a few changes in style preference) but in the actual typography.
This is particularly true if you learn using the Fundamenta Ekzercaro - which contains typos! - but since the Fundamento is "untouchable", even the typos are left in.
As to the Fundamenta, is that this one - http://www.akademio-de-esperanto.org/fundamento/ek... ?
altindiefanboy (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月29日 3:55:37
Sfinkso:In most browsers, if the text is the wrong size you can make it larger or smaller by holding the CTRL key down and pressing the + or - key, 0 resets.As someone who is very technically literate, I never knew that CTRL+0 reset the size on most browsers (works on Firefox, at least). I have used the other two shortcuts for years, but this is a new one to me, and I am loving it. Thanks!
Venkistido (プロフィールを表示) 2016年2月29日 10:04:10
Vestitor:Sfinkso: I still have a French book we used at school (The Longman Second French Book or something like that) and it is good, but you need something easier to get you to that level.Wasn't there a 'Longman First French Book' ?