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Mal indicates the opposite of a norm?

di Alkanadi, 10 aprile 2016

Messaggi: 25

Lingua: English

Alkanadi (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 08:04:10

Some people don't like the ino thing because it implies that the female is a derivative of the male. On the same note, does mal subconsciously imply a norm?

Example:
ŝatas - normal
malŝatas - abnormal

ŝparas - normal
malŝparas - abnormal

Vaidd (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 08:21:48

I see mal as implying a positive. Not positive as in good or moral, but positive as in a positive number.

For example, light is something that is there, so it's positive. Darkness is the absence of light, so it's a negative. Thus, lumo/mallumo. Both darkness and light are normal states, however. Another is warmth. Warmth is excited energy, and cold is a lack of this excitement. Thus, varmo/malvarmo. Likewise, it is normal for something to be warm or cold.

I love this aspect of Esperanto, which is also why I hate the popular usage of malfermi, since "to open" appears to me as being the clear positive, and "to close" as the clear negative, but I suppose someone else could see it differently.

Alkanadi (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 09:55:38

Vaidd:I love this aspect of Esperanto, which is also why I hate the popular usage of malfermi, since "to open" appears to me as being the clear positive, and "to close" as the clear negative, but I suppose someone else could see it differently.
I have the same perspective. I never liked malfermi either.

If someone is very security cautious then fermi is positive.

Vestitor (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 10:44:19

What is the 'popular' usage of malfermi, as opposed to the ordinary usage?

richardhall (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 10:59:54

Alkanadi:On the same note, does mal subconsciously imply a norm?

Example:
ŝatas - normal
malŝatas - abnormal

ŝparas - normal
malŝparas - abnormal
I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Mal- just makes a word its opposite. Normal/abnormal doesn't come into it, subconsciously or otherwise.

Vaidd (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 12:08:38

Vestitor:What is the 'popular' usage of malfermi, as opposed to the ordinary usage?
If Esperantists wanted there to be a root meaning "open," there would be one. -Apert- is the only one I know that is close to that, but it's not used/popular, probably because it means something different.

Vestitor (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 13:41:56

Vaidd:
Vestitor:What is the 'popular' usage of malfermi, as opposed to the ordinary usage?
If Esperantists wanted there to be a root meaning "open," there would be one. -Apert- is the only one I know that is close to that, but it's not used/popular, probably because it means something different.
I took it that these are different. There is of course:

Mi malfermas la pordon = I open the door. Or: la pordo estas malfermi = the door is open.

La fenestra estas aŭ fermi aŭ malfermi... how would aperti work here?

Aperti is the less common word and a more recent coinage.

erinja (Mostra il profilo) 10 aprile 2016 17:47:40

I suspect roots were chosen not based on "positivity" or "normality" (who can say whether wet or dry are more normal?), but based on which meaning had greater agreement among languages, as far as coming up with a recognizable root.

As far as wet and dry, for example, a root like sec (which became Esperanto's seka) is found in most if not all Romance languages. The closest you seem to get with wet is something like "humid", which already made it into Esperanto as humida, with a different meaning.

nornen (Mostra il profilo) 11 aprile 2016 04:19:10

Just to avoid that some beginner reads this thread and gets funny ideas:

Vestitor:la pordo estas malfermi = the door is open.
Is this correct?
If it were my job to open something, I would say "Mia devo estas malfermi", but I fail to see the meaning of "La pordo estas malfermi."

Vestitor:La fenestra estas aŭ fermi aŭ malfermi
Is this correct?
I would expect a noun (fenestro) and then adjectives or participles: (mal)ferma, (mal)fermita, (mal)fermata.

Vestitor:La fenestra estas aŭ fermi aŭ malfermi... how would aperti work here?
Maybe: La fenestro estas aŭ ferma aŭ aperta?

The fact that the adjective "open" (malferma, offen, abierto) and the verb "open" (malfermi, öffnen, abrir) are the same in English, shouldn't be a reason for haphazardly mixing parts of speech in Esperanto.

vejktoro (Mostra il profilo) 11 aprile 2016 05:22:56

Alkanadi:Some people don't like the ino thing because it implies that the female is a derivative of the male. On the same note, does mal subconsciously imply a norm?

Example:
ŝatas - normal
malŝatas - abnormal

ŝparas - normal
malŝparas - abnormal
Ne. No. No value judgement. Only opposite. If you think otherwise you must work on your fluency and abandon your first language prejudice.

Also: malfermi= "to open".. or "to un-close". Straight forward. Move on.

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