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Benson Wells Omissions

mkj1887-ისა და 27 აპრილი, 2016-ის მიერ

შეტყობინებები: 21

ენა: English

mkj1887 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 27 აპრილი, 2016 15:49:42

I’ve compiled a list of the words, that I have noted so far (27.Apr.2016), appearing in neither Benson nor Wells. Here is the address of the list:

http://www.public-domain-materials.com/folder-bens...

erinja (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 27 აპრილი, 2016 16:25:39

I skimmed your list. Here are a couple of comments.

- Wells is British. I noticed you had "bangs" on the list, but he may well have it under the British term, which would be "fringe". You could check that, I don't have the dictionary on me at the moment.

- I would not expect a translation dictionary to have a lot of slang terms. You have some things on your list that are so colloquial that I don't even know them ("nocher"?) and some that are extremely regional (yooper) or specialized to a certain subculture (grok). Translation dictionaries are not really aimed at people who are trying to read a highly colloquial text in a language, otherwise they would have to be multi-volume sets instead of a single book. Instead, such dictionaries are mainly aimed at learners of a language who are trying to translate a text in one direction or the other, and less commonly, for Esperanto-speaking foreigners who are navigating in another country. A learner should know that "break wind" is just a colloquial form of "fart" (which is certainly in the dictionary), so you'd look up "fart" if you wanted to know how to say this. Similar for "poop" or "dirt" in the meaning of gossip.

- Wells published a new edition in 2010. I believe your list must be based on the old dictionary, because I looked up quinoa and found it in the 2010 Wells. Did not look up other words, just that one, because I felt sure I had seen it in Wells before. I heard some time back that Benson was working on a revised version of his dictionary. I am not sure what the status is on that but if you wanted to clean up your list to remove the things that will obviously never be included (some of the extreme colloquialisms), I'm sure you could send Benson the list and he might consider some or all of the words for inclusion. For Wells, it might not be so useful, since like I said, he just put out a new edition in 2010 and I doubt somewhat that he'd put out a new one so soon after, but you never know and you would lose nothing by e-mailing him.

mkj1887 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 12:06:06

erinja:I skimmed your list. Here are a couple of comments.

- Wells is British. I noticed you had "bangs" on the list, but he may well have it under the British term, which would be "fringe". You could check that, I don't have the dictionary on me at the moment.

- I would not expect a translation dictionary to have a lot of slang terms. You have some things on your list that are so colloquial that I don't even know them ("nocher"?) and some that are extremely regional (yooper) or specialized to a certain subculture (grok). Translation dictionaries are not really aimed at people who are trying to read a highly colloquial text in a language, otherwise they would have to be multi-volume sets instead of a single book. Instead, such dictionaries are mainly aimed at learners of a language who are trying to translate a text in one direction or the other, and less commonly, for Esperanto-speaking foreigners who are navigating in another country. A learner should know that "break wind" is just a colloquial form of "fart" (which is certainly in the dictionary), so you'd look up "fart" if you wanted to know how to say this. Similar for "poop" or "dirt" in the meaning of gossip.

- Wells published a new edition in 2010. I believe your list must be based on the old dictionary, because I looked up quinoa and found it in the 2010 Wells. Did not look up other words, just that one, because I felt sure I had seen it in Wells before. I heard some time back that Benson was working on a revised version of his dictionary. I am not sure what the status is on that but if you wanted to clean up your list to remove the things that will obviously never be included (some of the extreme colloquialisms), I'm sure you could send Benson the list and he might consider some or all of the words for inclusion. For Wells, it might not be so useful, since like I said, he just put out a new edition in 2010 and I doubt somewhat that he'd put out a new one so soon after, but you never know and you would lose nothing by e-mailing him.
It’s easier to delete than it is to add, and so it is better to present everything encountered, and then let the concerned parties choose from the list as they see fit. What’s left might be the material for a special monograph.

I’m using the 2010 edition of Wells, and I don’t find QUINOA in it.

Miland (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 12:33:35

You'll find it in the Esperanto-English section (see kvino/o).

mkj1887 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 13:40:30

My bad for not making it clear: In this context, I am only concerned with English-to-Esperanto translation (in support of my Esperanto-based Encylopedic Dictionary of Mercan English). Therefore, the Esperanto-to-English section of Wells is irrelevant here. (BTW, Is the expression “my bad” used in Britain?)

Miland (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 14:25:43

mkj1887:My bad for not making it clear: In this context, I am only concerned with English-to-Esperanto translation .. (BTW, Is the expression “my bad” used in Britain?)
It should be "my fault", but your point is well taken!

erinja (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 19:34:50

mkj1887:It’s easier to delete than it is to add, and so it is better to present everything encountered, and then let the concerned parties choose from the list as they see fit. What’s left might be the material for a special monograph.
I'm just concerned that your list will be totally disregarded if it seems to be mostly slang terms that even the native-English-speaker author of the dictionary has never heard of. I feel that a well-curated list is more likely to be taken seriously. It takes time to sift through the list and sort the words likely to be great candidates for inclusion out from the ones that don't really have a snowball's chance (like yooper). But do what you want, it's your list.

ruth3209 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 20:03:22

Here's a link to an online dictionary of lesser-known words
http://esperantodictionary.org/about.php

mkj1887 (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 21:11:14

ruth3209:Here's a link to an online dictionary of lesser-known words
http://esperantodictionary.org/about.php
Thanks! I've added a link to it here.

Mustelvulpo (მომხმარებლის პროფილი) 28 აპრილი, 2016 21:17:24

I come from Michigan so I have used the word "yooper" frequently. It refers to a resident of the state's upper peninsula. (U.P. leads to yooper). I don't think such a word could be translated into any other language. In Esperanto, it would be Nord-Miĉiganano. A similar concept could apply for many of the other curious words on the list.

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