Příspěvky: 94
Jazyk: English
Alkanadi (Ukázat profil) 15. května 2016 8:19:36
erinja:You totally missed the point.You totally missed the point. Did you read the part that said the examples are followed by an infinitive verb?
erinja (Ukázat profil) 15. května 2016 12:46:02
Or were you just looking to make it easy for everyone by posting some great examples refuting your arguments of this thread?
It's almost like saying "Look how I proved that I'm wrong! But I'm going to do what I've been arguing for anyway!"
lagtendisto (Ukázat profil) 15. května 2016 15:13:52
bartlett22183:True. However, idioms are some of the most slippery parts of language, so I for one advocate that for an international language, to the extent possible, they be avoided. They can lead to serious incomprehension and even misunderstanding.Hhm. That sounds very 'binary Lojban-ish'.
What about poetry? There's lot of international loved E-o poetry whose message is hidden within fuzzy phrases. Its its fuzzyness what make poetry entertaining. Okay, at least that seem to concern E-o songs. 
dbob (Ukázat profil) 15. května 2016 15:58:22
Alkanadi:The examples in the tekstaro seem to have an infinitive verb following it.You made a statement giving examples that totally disprove it. Seems to me quite contradictory. But the important thing is that the casual reader, especially the beginner, understands that "Mi iras vin" (whatever that means) does not mean "Mi iras al vi":
However, I think Mi iras al vi is a very common structure, which has the same meaning as Mi iras vin.
Mi iras al vi = I go to you
Mi iras vin (?) = I go you (?)
Of course it is possible to find texts with the verb "iri" followed by "vin":
Mi iras vin retrovi. = Mi iras retrovi vin. = Mi iras por vin retrovi. = Mi iras por retrovi vin.
Alkanadi (Ukázat profil) 16. května 2016 6:31:40
erinja:YIt's almost like saying "Look how I proved that I'm wrong! But I'm going to do what I've been arguing for anyway!"I don't think I was saying that. I was answering the question. The question was about whether or not the sentence structure exists in the tekstaro. The sentence structure does exist but only when followed by an infinitive verb. Therefore, the accusative is not related to the verb iri.
Second (and separate) point, Mi iras al vi is equivalent to Mi iras vin because it is the accusative of direction.
A study was done showing that if you dislike a presidential candidate, you will view their statements as contradictory. The opposite is also true. The study showed that if you like a candidate, you will assume that his statements are perfectly congruent. This is a cognitive bias that we all share.
Miland (Ukázat profil) 16. května 2016 7:37:18
Alkanadi:Mi iras al vi is equivalent to Mi iras vin because it is the accusative of direction.The accusative of direction is used with places, not people, as you will see in PMEG. But this point has been made already (2016-05-09 20:58:12).
Alkanadi (Ukázat profil) 16. května 2016 7:53:45
Miland:The accusative of direction is used with places, not people, as you will see in PMEG.Your source disagrees with you:
Morgaŭ mi venos ĉe vin. Tradicie oni preferas: Morgaŭ mi venos al vi.
richardhall (Ukázat profil) 16. května 2016 8:00:48
Alkanadi:Surely, to support your argument that sentence would have to be "Morgaŭ mi venos vin"? That ĉe is crucial.Miland:The accusative of direction is used with places, not people, as you will see in PMEG.Your source disagrees with you:
Morgaŭ mi venos ĉe vin. Tradicie oni preferas: Morgaŭ mi venos al vi.
Alkanadi (Ukázat profil) 16. května 2016 8:12:41
richardhall:Doesn't ĉe point to a location? PMEGAlkanadi:Surely, to support your argument that sentence would have to be "Morgaŭ mi venos vin"? That ĉe is crucial.Miland:The accusative of direction is used with places, not people, as you will see in PMEG.Your source disagrees with you:
Morgaŭ mi venos ĉe vin. Tradicie oni preferas: Morgaŭ mi venos al vi.
The location is the person.
lagtendisto (Ukázat profil) 16. května 2016 8:52:21