I'm not threatened or disillusioned, why do people keep making an attempt to use loaded language to give the impression that I'm in some sort of meltdown?

I never expected a warm reception with this topic. Hardly anyone wants to willingly admit that Esperanto is maintained in subculture status by people with a hobbyist mentality. A fine way for an auxiliary language to be taken seriously.

Uh, yeah, Esperanto speakers have hobbies... so? Which may or may not include inventing languages or learning other conlangs. I still don't get your point. I learned Esperanto because I liked it, and I use it as a means of communication and self-expression. Same reason I learn Spanish or any other language. Actually, for me learning any language is a hobby! I live in the U.S.; I have almost zero practical need for anything but English, and most of the people I know get by with just English. Why should I care about international communication? I can get my social experience chatting with the neighbors and friends, why should I care if I can talk to people from Brazil, Poland, China, and all those other places I've never been and probably will never have any need to go? In fact, my family does not hesitate to tell me quite thoroughly what a stupid waste of time it is to learn and speak Esperanto, and foreign languages that aren't Spanish (it gets more favorable treatment because there are a lot of Spanish speakers in the U.S.) don't get seen as a whole lot better. But I want to be able to communicate in other languages, so I learn other languages, and they include Esperanto. I work on my own language project and learn other conlangs like Toki Pona and Lojban for other reasons, such as psychological satisfaction, mental stimulation, and fun, and they do not contradict or interfere with my Esperanto activities any more than my Spanish activities. Or any more than making mediocre paintings of Pikes Peak and crocheting toy foods does.

Christa627:Uh, yeah, Esperanto speakers have hobbies... so? Which may or may not include inventing languages or learning other conlangs. I still don't get your point. I learned Esperanto because I liked it, and I use it as a means of communication and self-expression. Same reason I learn Spanish or any other language. Actually, for me learning any language is a hobby! I live in the U.S.; I have almost zero practical need for anything but English, and most of the people I know get by with just English. Why should I care about international communication? I can get my social experience chatting with the neighbors and friends, why should I care if I can talk to people from Brazil, Poland, China, and all those other places I've never been and probably will never have any need to go? In fact, my family does not hesitate to tell me quite thoroughly what a stupid waste of time it is to learn and speak Esperanto, and foreign languages that aren't Spanish (it gets more favorable treatment because there are a lot of Spanish speakers in the U.S.) don't get seen as a whole lot better. But I want to be able to communicate in other languages, so I learn other languages, and they include Esperanto. I work on my own language project and learn other conlangs like Toki Pona and Lojban for other reasons, such as psychological satisfaction, mental stimulation, and fun, and they do not contradict or interfere with my Esperanto activities any more than my Spanish activities. Or any more than making mediocre paintings of Pikes Peak and crocheting toy foods does.

Uh, haven’t you ever heard the expression, “Don’t feed the trolls.”? Vestitor is an idiotic troll from way back.

mkj1887:

Uh, haven’t you ever heard the expression, “Don’t feed the trolls.”? Vestitor is an idiotic troll from way back.

It's a bit hard to tell if he's trolling, or if he just really is as cocky and lulu as he seems. But in either case, I was beginning to suspect that my time would be better spent inventing an ultrasonic whistling language for a civilization on Venus, than continuing to persue this thread! Hey, that's an idea; maybe I'll do just that!

Christa627:

mkj1887:

Uh, haven’t you ever heard the expression, “Don’t feed the trolls.”? Vestitor is an idiotic troll from way back.

It's a bit hard to tell if he's trolling, or if he just really is as cocky and lulu as he seems. But in either case, I was beginning to suspect that my time would be better spent inventing an ultrasonic whistling language for a civilization on Venus, than continuing to persue this thread! Hey, that's an idea; maybe I'll do just that!

Now this is most peculiar. Apparently the two of us are investigating exactly the same topic. How has your research advanced so far?

I am mostly intrigued by the phonology and phonotactics. I personally find it extremely hard to tell a rising mid-low pitch followed by a mid-high falling pitch from a mid-low undulating pitch (especially when the speaker is from the region of the Tessera of Ishtar Terra). I.e. the distinction between K2-T3 and K4 [1]. Taking into consideration that there are no minimal pairs between K2-T3 and K4, I even daresay that one should maybe revise Dr. Lorentz' classification of pitch and tone and take a more suprasegmental approach. What is your opinion?

----
[1] I will stick to Dr. Lorentz' notation here: Q for low pitch, K for mid-low pitch, T for mid-high pitch and P for high pitch. As for the tones: 1 for stable, 2 for rising, 3 for falling and 4 for undulating.

mkj1887:
Uh, haven’t you ever heard the expression, “Don’t feed the trolls.”? Vestitor is an idiotic troll from way back.

I'd have assumed that the last dressing down you received from the admin for spreading this slur might have deterred you. Clearly not. It's best to let people know that rather than me being a troll, what really happened is I said something that you didn't like. So basically you are just miffed.

If you only came to the thread to offer that slur, I suggest you jog on.

Christa627:...Why should I care about international communication? I can get my social experience chatting with the neighbors and friends, why should I care if I can talk to people from Brazil, Poland, China, and all those other places I've never been and probably will never have any need to go?...

A very typical regionalist and self-serving approach to the question of international communication, no? Consider perhaps that the wider question concerns how other large groups of people might be able to communicate across a large divide on an equal footing, without having to defer to English-speaking dominance.

Maybe you won't have to ever visit China, but that has no bearing upon the best and perhaps fairest way of China being able to easily communicate with other countries without having to defer to English.

This is reminiscent of those people who think they shouldn't pay taxes because theyclaim to use no services or can pay for them themselves. It speaks of a lack of wider social awareness.

Vestitor:I'm not threatened or disillusioned, why do people keep making an attempt to use loaded language to give the impression that I'm in some sort of meltdown?

They feel that if they would act like you now then they must be in state of disillusion. Or different explained, they slip into your shoes like somebody dubbing some movie actor.

Vestitor:I never expected a warm reception with this topic.

Then what do you expect? Do you expect that other are happy to be put into deprecative categories? What about that your concerns are very much classic clashing inside Esperanto community? : F vs R

Vestitor:Hardly anyone wants to willingly admit that Esperanto is maintained in subculture status by people with a hobbyist mentality.

versus:

Vestitor:A fine way for an auxiliary language to be taken seriously.

Sorry I don't get fine tunes of that. Is it meant ironically?

nornen:

Christa627:

mkj1887:

Uh, haven’t you ever heard the expression, “Don’t feed the trolls.”? Vestitor is an idiotic troll from way back.

It's a bit hard to tell if he's trolling, or if he just really is as cocky and lulu as he seems. But in either case, I was beginning to suspect that my time would be better spent inventing an ultrasonic whistling language for a civilization on Venus, than continuing to persue this thread! Hey, that's an idea; maybe I'll do just that!

Now this is most peculiar. Apparently the two of us are investigating exactly the same topic. How has your research advanced so far?

I am mostly intrigued by the phonology and phonotactics. I personally find it extremely hard to tell a rising mid-low pitch followed by a mid-high falling pitch from a mid-low undulating pitch (especially when the speaker is from the region of the Tessera of Ishtar Terra). I.e. the distinction between K2-T3 and K4 [1]. Taking into consideration that there are no minimal pairs between K2-T3 and K4, I even daresay that one should maybe revise Dr. Lorentz' classification of pitch and tone and take a more suprasegmental approach. What is your opinion?

----
[1] I will stick to Dr. Lorentz' notation here: Q for low pitch, K for mid-low pitch, T for mid-high pitch and P for high pitch. As for the tones: 1 for stable, 2 for rising, 3 for falling and 4 for undulating.

Well, my research hasn't got all that far, given that I just had the idea last night, but you're probably right; yeah, I think you've got something there. Now, theoretically, K2-T3 would be pronounced longer than K4, but as we know, the residents of the Teressa tend to be a bit careless about that! So perhaps a more suprasegmental approach may be in order... but as I said, my research hasn't gotten very far .