Cerrado
Tiu vs. Tio
de Godilovetofu, 22 de abril de 2017
Aportes: 5
Idioma: English
Godilovetofu (Mostrar perfil) 22 de abril de 2017 12:47:01
I've had a look at other discussions online but they all seem to quickly descend into heated arguments between long-time speakers.
A few example sentences would be really helpful
My wild guesses so far are:
*They act a bit like adjectives since they can take -j, -n and -jn
*Ĉi tio (or should it be ĉi-tio?) makes 'that' into 'this'. So would adding -j make it 'those/these'?
*Most of the explanations I've seen so far say that tio=that thing and tiu=that one... So... maybe tio refers to non-humans and tiu is for people? Or is one a specific 'that'
Anyway, I am totally clueless lol
I'm into lesson 4 of the course about the time machine, so maybe there is an explanation still to come.Dankon!
sergejm (Mostrar perfil) 22 de abril de 2017 15:58:02
In some cases you can use "tiu" instead of "he" or "she" if you don't want mark sex.
With noun they use "tiu", which takes "-j" if the noun is plural.
Add "ĉi" if you want change "that" to "this". You can use "ĉi tiu","tiu ĉi", "ĉi-tiu" or "tiu-ĉi". But "ĉi-tiea"("which is here") is always with "-".
The same relation is with kiu/kio, iu/io, ĉiu/ĉio, neniu/nenio.
Godilovetofu (Mostrar perfil) 23 de abril de 2017 15:40:49
sergejm:"Tiu" without noun is "that one", "tio" is "that thing" or "it". "Tio" commonly cannot have "-j".Hmm... Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure I understand still. I looked at the grammar pages on Lernu and they gave some example sentences:
In some cases you can use "tiu" instead of "he" or "she" if you don't want mark sex.
With noun they use "tiu", which takes "-j" if the noun is plural.
Add "ĉi" if you want change "that" to "this". You can use "ĉi tiu","tiu ĉi", "ĉi-tiu" or "tiu-ĉi". But "ĉi-tiea"("which is here") is always with "-".
The same relation is with kiu/kio, iu/io, ĉiu/ĉio, neniu/nenio.
*TIO estas mia hejmo
*TIU ĈI malfreŝa pano estas malmola, kiel ŝtono
But isn't the this/that in these sentences the same kind of thing?: an object (or a matter, for non-physical things)?
Or, does Tiu refer to 'that' out of a limited choice of things (Which fruit do you want? [out of the choice of the 3 fruits here on the table) I want THAT ONE).
It's really frustrating cuz I feel like I was doing so well at Esperanto and now I've hit a wall!
sergejm (Mostrar perfil) 26 de abril de 2017 01:15:24
Tiu ĉi malfreŝa pano estas malmola, kiel ŝtono = This stale bread is hard as a rock.
In the first sentense "tio" does not have a none (Otherwise it would be "tiu"). So it is "that thing" or simple "it".
In the second sentence "tiu ĉi" has a none "pano". So it is "this".
sudanglo (Mostrar perfil) 26 de abril de 2017 09:52:58
So you could say either tio estas mia hemjo or tiu estas mia hejmo, but in the second case you are expressing a contrast with other possibilities. If there is no reason for such a contrast use tio.