Tertutup
Tiu vs. Tio
dari Godilovetofu, 22 April 2017
Pesan: 5
Bahasa: English
Godilovetofu (Tunjukkan profil) 22 April 2017 12.47.01
I've had a look at other discussions online but they all seem to quickly descend into heated arguments between long-time speakers.
A few example sentences would be really helpful
My wild guesses so far are:
*They act a bit like adjectives since they can take -j, -n and -jn
*Ĉi tio (or should it be ĉi-tio?) makes 'that' into 'this'. So would adding -j make it 'those/these'?
*Most of the explanations I've seen so far say that tio=that thing and tiu=that one... So... maybe tio refers to non-humans and tiu is for people? Or is one a specific 'that'
Anyway, I am totally clueless lol
I'm into lesson 4 of the course about the time machine, so maybe there is an explanation still to come.Dankon!
sergejm (Tunjukkan profil) 22 April 2017 15.58.02
In some cases you can use "tiu" instead of "he" or "she" if you don't want mark sex.
With noun they use "tiu", which takes "-j" if the noun is plural.
Add "ĉi" if you want change "that" to "this". You can use "ĉi tiu","tiu ĉi", "ĉi-tiu" or "tiu-ĉi". But "ĉi-tiea"("which is here") is always with "-".
The same relation is with kiu/kio, iu/io, ĉiu/ĉio, neniu/nenio.
Godilovetofu (Tunjukkan profil) 23 April 2017 15.40.49
sergejm:"Tiu" without noun is "that one", "tio" is "that thing" or "it". "Tio" commonly cannot have "-j".Hmm... Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure I understand still. I looked at the grammar pages on Lernu and they gave some example sentences:
In some cases you can use "tiu" instead of "he" or "she" if you don't want mark sex.
With noun they use "tiu", which takes "-j" if the noun is plural.
Add "ĉi" if you want change "that" to "this". You can use "ĉi tiu","tiu ĉi", "ĉi-tiu" or "tiu-ĉi". But "ĉi-tiea"("which is here") is always with "-".
The same relation is with kiu/kio, iu/io, ĉiu/ĉio, neniu/nenio.
*TIO estas mia hejmo
*TIU ĈI malfreŝa pano estas malmola, kiel ŝtono
But isn't the this/that in these sentences the same kind of thing?: an object (or a matter, for non-physical things)?
Or, does Tiu refer to 'that' out of a limited choice of things (Which fruit do you want? [out of the choice of the 3 fruits here on the table) I want THAT ONE).
It's really frustrating cuz I feel like I was doing so well at Esperanto and now I've hit a wall!
sergejm (Tunjukkan profil) 26 April 2017 01.15.24
Tiu ĉi malfreŝa pano estas malmola, kiel ŝtono = This stale bread is hard as a rock.
In the first sentense "tio" does not have a none (Otherwise it would be "tiu"). So it is "that thing" or simple "it".
In the second sentence "tiu ĉi" has a none "pano". So it is "this".
sudanglo (Tunjukkan profil) 26 April 2017 09.52.58
So you could say either tio estas mia hemjo or tiu estas mia hejmo, but in the second case you are expressing a contrast with other possibilities. If there is no reason for such a contrast use tio.