david_uk:

Yes, usually english people assimile it to their thou, and I think that they are furious at the use of ci because that would make them do a step back in their old (and religious?) english...

I think the vast majority of English people do not know what "thou" means. They just have a vague idea that it means 'you'. For most people, it is a word that only appears in Shakespeare and old translations of the bible.

English people are more likely to know "tu" and "vous" from French, than "thee" and "thou" from old English.

sounds like francophobia then...

Roch:Yes, usually english people assimile it to their thou, and I think that they are furious at the use of ci because that would make them do a step back in their old (and religious?) english...

It is said that thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God...

(correct me if I'm wrong! )

Thee/thou is actually Middle English.

If ever it was because of the french, it penalized many other languages!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T–V_distinction

Roch:If ever it was because of the french, it penalized many other languages!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T–V_distinction

English also has a problem with "you". It needs separate pronouns for the second person singular and plural.

English also has a problem with "you". It needs separate pronouns for the second person singular and plural.

That is true. There is a Manchester dialect where people say 'you' and 'youse'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_dialect

david_uk:

English also has a problem with "you". It needs separate pronouns for the second person singular and plural.

That is true. There is a Manchester dialect where people say 'you' and 'youse'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_dialect

Interesting... That's a good idea. Also, there is the third person singular pronoun gender problem (for example, when you're not talking about a specific person).

david_uk:

Yes, usually english people assimile it to their thou, and I think that they are furious at the use of ci because that would make them do a step back in their old (and religious?) english...

I think the vast majority of English people do not know what "thou" means. They just have a vague idea that it means 'you'. For most people, it is a word that only appears in Shakespeare and old translations of the bible.

English people are more likely to know "tu" and "vous" from French, than "thee" and "thou" from old English.

I think this is completely false. Almost (if not all) Northern dialects and ordinary vernaculars still use thee/thou/thy/th'art (thou art). I was born in 1975 and I grew up with it as normal speech. Even people in the rest of country are aware of it.

In general the idea that English or any language suffers greatly from 'you' being used as 2nd person singular and as a plural is just a pseudo-problem. Any honest English speaker knows in their heart that they are not in constant confusion or trapped in a warren of misunderstandings.

knows in their heart that they are not in constant confusion or trapped in a warren of misunderstandings.

Sometimes in french, young people "tutoient" (to thou?) everybody, like their teachers, elderly people... That makes sense to them...

Almost (if not all) Northern dialects and ordinary vernaculars still use thee/thou/thy/th'art (thou art).

Maybe david_uk is more from the south, I have heard someone from Brighton that french was like familiar to them.

Any honest English speaker knows in their heart that they are not in constant confusion or trapped in a warren of misunderstandings.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I did not mean anything like that. I just like the you/youse idea. It would be better than standard English.

I think this is completely false. Almost (if not all) Northern dialects and ordinary vernaculars still use thee/thou/thy/th'art (thou art). I was born in 1975 and I grew up with it as normal speech. Even people in the rest of country are aware of it.

I am from "The North" and I am a few years older than you. Mostly Derbyshire/Lancashire/Greater Manchester. Thee/thou/thy was never in common use anywhere I lived. There must be a lot of variation across the country.

I only know 'tu' and 'vous' from french classes at school before my O-levels. I did not do any languages at school after age 13.

david_uk:
I am from "The North" and I am a few years older than you. Mostly Derbyshire/Lancashire/Greater Manchester. Thee/thou/thy was never in common use anywhere I lived. There must be a lot of variation across the country.

In that case, greetings to a fellow northerner! Or: Ar 't alreet? I am from the Wigan/Leigh area and it was dominant all of my youth and into my early 20s. It has never really died out (though it's started slipping). It may also be a class thing.