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Try, try, try again . . .

viết bởi piff, Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

Tin nhắn: 10

Nội dung: English

piff (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:52:37 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

Does anyone else feel confused about the number of Esperanto verbs that exist to translate the modest English word "try"? I am (so far) aware of: klopodi, peni, provi and I think under some circumstances also emi and strebi. Can anyone explain the different nuances in meaning which these words carry?

mnlg (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 16:28:39 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

my interpretation:

peni = to try hard to
strebi = to strive
klopodi = to make an effort to
provi = to try

emi means "to feel like to", "to be inclined to" and I'm not sure it goes with the rest, but I am not a native speaker.

awake (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:14:50 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

piff:Does anyone else feel confused about the number of Esperanto verbs that exist to translate the modest English word "try"? I am (so far) aware of: klopodi, peni, provi and I think under some circumstances also emi and strebi. Can anyone explain the different nuances in meaning which these words carry?
There's a similar number of words in English that mean (roughly) to try, as mnlg pointed out. In English, these words are mostly interchangeable. To endeavor, to try, to attempt, etc...

I agree also that emi does not fit with the others. And to add to this thread, I think there is one sense of the english verb "to try" that does not translate directly into Esperanto.

To try as in "to sample". For example

Did you try the beef? It was delicious.

mnlg (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:28:45 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

awake:To try as in "to sample". For example
Did you try the beef? It was delicious.
That's right, and that's gustumi.

Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:56:41 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

To me 'to try' is simply provi, while the other verbs like klopodi, strebi or peni emphasize the element of a special effort, in increasing order of strength. In particular I would say that peni refers to strenuous effort.

Docxjo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 22:45:56 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

According to David Richardson's "Esperanto Learning and Using the International Language" on page 255 he explains that peni, klopodi, and provi all mean to try, but with some distinctions. Peni means "to make an effort". Provi means to "to try a thing out, to see if a thing can be done." Klopodi means "to take steps to do a thing." By the way, a great book!

RiotNrrd (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 22:52:50 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

The modest "try" also has a few other meanings in English.

To put on trial, is one.

To experience difficulties ("these were trying times") is another.

But it's nothing compared to "set" which, I believe, has over 400 separate meanings in English (and no, I will not enumerate them).

Dreamlight (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 23:44:31 Ngày 07 tháng 6 năm 2008

I think it's more like 200 and some, actually. It is, if I'm not mistaken, the word with the most meanings in any language.

awake (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:55:37 Ngày 08 tháng 6 năm 2008

RiotNrrd:The modest "try" also has a few other meanings in English.

To put on trial, is one.

To experience difficulties ("these were trying times") is another.
Yes, another good example. Though these are actually very similar. Think of the latter as "This was a time of trial".

I'm actually not sure how one would say try, as in try a lawsuit. advokatumi ?

Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 06:52:40 Ngày 08 tháng 6 năm 2008

awake: I'm actually not sure how one would say try, as in try a lawsuit. advokatumi ?
The best may be proceso. It is wider in scope than a trial, including legal action through the courts in general. Wells also has procezo which specifically refers to action against someone, which the state would be taking in a criminal trial.

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