メッセージ: 9
言語: English
Wilhelm (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月19日 23:14:50
As in,
"He tips his hat and says, "Hello", when he sees his friends."
Thanks.
mnlg (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月19日 23:37:28
alexbeard (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月20日 2:15:16
jan aleksan (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月22日 8:27:57
By the way, is "to tip" an official word also for "to tap"? I didn't find that meaning in my dictionnary.
If it is, it's amazing to see the use of "t" and "p" for 3 differents words that have the same meaning.
Note: in french: tapoter
![ridulo.gif](/images/smileys/ridulo.gif)
erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月22日 12:54:20
jan aleksan:Why not: frapeti which means to tap, to pat.No, tip and tap are two completely different words.
By the way, is "to tip" an official word also for "to tap"? I didn't find that meaning in my dictionnary.
I would literally translate "tip" as "klini", or perhaps "klineti"
Tap would be "frapeti".
As for a translation of tipping your hat, ::EDIT - used wrong names before:: I agree with AlexBeard that you could go for a literal translation, or else go with mnlg's suggestion of "riverenci". Another option is to say "tuŝi", since touching your hat (rather than tipping it) is another way to express respect.
Ironchef (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月22日 14:40:46
![ridulo.gif](/images/smileys/ridulo.gif)
These idiomatic translations are what learning languages is all about. I am finding every day that what we say in English is not said the same way the world over. I recently found out that people in Hungary go yellow with envy, whereas people in English-speaking places, go green with envy (thanks Gordy), as an example. It's what makes language rich and colorful (literally). Recently Esperanto was criticized on the BBC for being "cultureless". This proves that it's not the case. We're creating the culture as we use the language.
erinja:jan aleksan:Why not: frapeti which means to tap, to pat.No, tip and tap are two completely different words.
By the way, is "to tip" an official word also for "to tap"? I didn't find that meaning in my dictionnary.
I would literally translate "tip" as "klini", or perhaps "klineti"
Tap would be "frapeti".
As for a translation of tipping your hat, I agree with mnlg that you could go for a literal translation. Another option is to say "tuŝi", since touching your hat (rather than tipping it) is another way to express respect.
erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月22日 16:27:40
It is important to ensure that your reader understands the meaning of the text, even if the reader doesn't have the cultural background to understand everything. For example, tipping or touching your hat to express respect is something that exists in some cultures but not others. To me, Esperanto translations can have two purposes. One, to translate a culture's literature so that others may read and understand it. Two, to translate a *culture*. so that people living in another culture can get a better understanding of how others live.
In my opinion, the best Esperanto translations keep both of these things in mind. You want to translate the *meaning* of a phrase, the meaning of an action, etc, rather than just the words, to tell the reader what is happening. In some cultures, for example, it is extremely insulting to show someone the soles of your shoes, or the bottoms of your feet. So if you had a text saying that was literally translated as "A showed B the soles of his feet", a reader outside of these cultures might not understand the implications of that. You could say "A insulted B" (the *meaning* of the action), but then the reader misses out on the cultural tidbit that showing the soles of your feet is insulting. To me, the best translation (whenever possible) is to mix both meanings. It doesn't have to be so didactic as "A insulted B by showing him the soles of his feet". But it could be worked into the text. "A showed B the soles of his feet, with a sneer of disrespect on his face". Obviously this would depend a lot on context, but I think that in most cases, if you don't feel constrained to translate word for word (and in most cases, you *shouldn't* feel constrained like that), you can work in both the literal meaning and an explanation of the cultural meaning.
mnlg (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月22日 16:35:09
My personal preference is to keep to the meaning, since the whole idea of Esperanto is to go beyond our differences and to facilitate communication and all that
![okulumo.gif](/images/smileys/okulumo.gif)
Wilhelm (プロフィールを表示) 2008年7月22日 18:10:57