Can you differentiate aesthetically-pleasing Esperanto from more workman-like Esperanto?
de PrimeMinisterK, 24 de abril de 2020
Aportes: 57
Idioma: English
Metsis (Mostrar perfil) 2 de mayo de 2020 10:44:00
I have written a blog posting in Esperanto Kiel montri la frazrolojn de vortoj?, which might help to clarify things. Feedback appreciated.
shamsmehra90 (Mostrar perfil) 2 de mayo de 2020 14:05:08
Usually, I suppose eo in practice mostly use SVO (subject, verb, object) word order, and if that would be a rule, accusative marking is unneccessary. But many people (about half of the worlds languages, I think I saw an estimation (but I might also be thinking about the wrong feature) – which is not the same as half the population – and I think SVO+SOV might include a majority of languages) aren't used to fixed word order (or use another one, like SOV), so words in order different might potentially put they. In theory, having the ability to use whatever word order with the accusative ending simplifies in this aspect.
In practice I don't know if it's used that much, and/or if Esperanto is still most popular among SVO-language speakers. I wonder, btw, if the languages that have other word orders are more isolating (I think it's called), with often small independent words instead of suffixes. I've read claims that those speakers have a bit of a hard time with word endings, so that in that case an independent "na" maybe would be simpler as accusative marker. (Vidu ankaŭ Esperanto sen fleksio, se vi estas interesita
)Regards,
mybkexperience reviews?
ito (Mostrar perfil) 3 de mayo de 2020 07:42:56
Dankon pro via bona argumento "KIEL MONTRI LA FRAZROLOJN DE VORTOJ?". Danke al vi mi komprenis pri diversaj manieroj por montri frazrolojn pli klare kaj orde ol antaŭe.
Kromaĵo:
...Bedaŭrinde viaj frazoj ŝajnas en rusto (^^;
En kelkaj lingvoj, ekz. en la japana, oni uzas postpoziciojn por ĉi tiu celo (mi esperas, ke mia japana ne estas en rusto):
獅子は ラーテルを 食べた (raion wa raateru o tabeta)
ラーテルは 獅子を 食べた (raateru wa raion o tabeta)
La postpozicio wa montras la subjekton kaj ....
ライオンが ラーテルを 食べた (raion ga raateru o tabeta)
ラーテルが ライオンを 食べた (raateru ga raion o tabeta)
aŭ
ライオンが ミツアナグマを 食べた (raion ga micuanaguma o tabeta)
ミツアナグマが ライオンを 食べた (micuanaguma ga raion o tabeta)
ŝajnas pli bonaj al mi.
- 獅子(しし ŝiŝi) sonas arkaika. Tiu vorto(en kanĵi-literoj) nuntempe indikas tian imagitan beston.
- ミツアナグマ（蜜穴熊）estas japana termino: 蜜(micu = mielo); 穴熊(anaguma = melo).
- Kvankam wa aspekte funkcias kvazaŭ montrilo de subjekto sed principe ĝi ne funkcias tiel. Rimarku ke oni okaze metas ĝin eĉ post
あなたはエスペラントは話しますか？Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton.
私はここではエスペラントは話しません。Mi ne parolas Esperanton ĉi tie.
Metsis (Mostrar perfil) 3 de mayo de 2020 12:54:17
Fakte estas antaŭ multaj jaroj, kiam mi partoprenis la elementan kurson en la japana. Kaj mi lernis nur iomete paroli kaj kompreni parolon. Dankon
PrimeMinisterK (Mostrar perfil) 4 de mayo de 2020 01:24:33
Metsis:About cases and prepositions…Cool thanks, I'll have to check this out.
I have written a blog posting in Esperanto Kiel montri la frazrolojn de vortoj?, which might help to clarify things. Feedback appreciated.
PrimeMinisterK (Mostrar perfil) 4 de mayo de 2020 01:26:39
shamsmehra90:Usually, I suppose eo in practice mostly use SVO (subject, verb, object) word order, and if that would be a rule, accusative marking is unneccessary.I keep running in to this statement but then I repeatedly see examples that contradict it. The subject, perhaps, is most often put first but after that it seems like a free-for-all. Anything goes, and does.
Metsis (Mostrar perfil) 4 de mayo de 2020 07:29:05
PrimeMinisterK:I keep running in to this statement but then I repeatedly see examples that contradict it. The subject, perhaps, is most often put first but after that it seems like a free-for-all. Anything goes, and does.You're right. I think that in every day speak (Have you made coffee? I want a slice of bread, I need to go to the toilet etc.) most speakers of Esperanto use SVO. For more thought-out speak and writings there are more variations and the ratio between spoken and written language is most likely different for Esperanto than for other languages. These variations certainly depend on, how topic and comment or theme and rheme get ordered in one's native language. Perhaps one of the most obvious separation is between topic-prominent (the topic of the sentence comes first, e.g. in Japanese and Korean) and subject-prominent languages (the subject of the sentence comes first, e.g. in English).
Having said that I think that SVO order is considered neutral in Esperanto and other orders emphasising. See my previous post here in Lernu.