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To All My Fellow Americans

de RiotNrrd, 2008-novembro-04

Mesaĝoj: 84

Lingvo: English

mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 08:19:59

erinja:or you can be a complete atheist and live according to those beliefs.
I agree 100% with your message, except for the little snippet above. Atheism is a set of beliefs as much as baldness is a hair color.

Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 18:45:42

webgovernor:
Joe the Plumber:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." - Lev 18:22.
That verse only seems to explicitly forbid male homosexuality...

webgovernor (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 19:24:46

Oŝo-Jabe:That verse only seems to explicitly forbid male homosexuality...
Joe the Plumber:Exactly! That's what I'm sayin'! It's a sin, or abomination even, according to God's law. I don't think God would want a gay wedding to occur when he clearly states that makin' gay love is an abomination.
I seriously have nothing else for that argument, it's obviously based fully on religion, but I can't find anything logically.

Hmm, if anyone has a logical argument against gay marriage, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Miland (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 19:41:09

Oŝo-Jabe: Lev 18:22..That verse only seems to explicitly forbid male homosexuality...
But we also have "Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural" (Romans 1:26, NRSV)

Logical argument against gay marriage, IMHO, is based on standpoints of faith regarding the immorality of same-sex acts, and the purpose of marriage to bring natural human reproduction into the area of the sacred.

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 20:26:02

Jesus defines legitimate Christian marriage in Matthew 19:3-9...

Mateo:And Pharisees came up to him [i.e. Jesus] and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?" He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?* So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?"+ He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."
Footnotes
* Jesus is quoting Gen. 2:24
+ The Pharisees are probably referring to Deut. 24:1-4

The clear implication is that marriage, according to Jesus, is divinely intended to be between male and female, and is intended to be for life. This is a scriptural basis for opposition to gay marriage.

Interestingly though, strictly going by the Bible, because he was previously divorced for an invalid reason, John McCain's marriage to Cindy McCain is no more legitimate than if he had married a dude. But he gets a pass on that because he has an "(R)" next to his name on the ballot, I guess...

RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 21:03:02

Well... this thread certainly didn't go the way I had hoped it would go. Which was more of a "yup, I voted!" sort of idea rather than a forum in which to air our political differences.

Oh, well. That's the way the internet goes.

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 21:37:19

zixhwizs:It seems the NFL is an electoral Punxsutawney Phil. If the Washington Redskins lose their last game before Election Day, the incumbent party in the White House is ousted. The Redskins moved to D.C. in 1937, and since then, 16 of the 17 elections have followed this pattern.

Of course, the sole exception was the the 2004 presidential election.
Sorry for digging up this slightly older post, but I was intending to address this earlier. Punxsutawney Phil has absolutely no predictive power over anything whatsoever, and neither do the results of NFL games (at least in regard to elections), so I guess in a way the NFL could be said to be an electoral Punxsutawney Phil...

hiyayaywhopee (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-06 21:47:30

Well... I voted and I'm glad Virginia mattered this year. =)

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-07 13:57:29

The Christian bible also says that a woman should be subservient to her husband, but lots of marriages don't follow that. The bible also strongly supports polygamous marriages. If you really want US marriage law to be based on the Bible, you would need to drop the part about marriage being a union between "one man and one woman", because the Bible clearly states that marriage should be between one man and however many women he wants, so long as they aren't sisters (which is also a rule broken in the bible!)

Ergo, fundamentalist Christians, if they really want to follow the bible, must support polygamous marriages. The Quran also supports polygamous marriages. Since the two biggest religions in the world both support polygamy in their holy texts, obviously this practice should be legal in the US. Right?

See, isn't it wonderful when we base US law on somebody's religious text?

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-novembro-07 15:57:39

While the Old Testament does describe people who got into polygamous marriage, it never explicitly endorses the practice, and in fact when a man married more than one woman at a time it would often lead to trouble. In the New Testament it says, "because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband", obviously singular.
because the Bible clearly states that marriage should be between one man and however many women he wants
Show me.

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