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A polite imperative

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Ubutumwa 18

ururimi: English

OFR185683 (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 30 Nyandagaro 2021 16:33:49

Hello!

I have been wondering if there is an equivalent to a sort of “polite imperative” in English, such as, “Can we have noodles for dinner?”, where you are not exactly asking the question, but more asking the other person to say yes. I am thinking maybe this would be, “Ĉu ni manĝu nudelon por vespermanĝo?” But I am not sure. What does you think?

sergejm (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 30 Nyandagaro 2021 17:28:19

Why not translate directly "Ĉu ni povas msnĝi nudelon por vespermanĝo?" ?

OFR185683 (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 30 Nyandagaro 2021 20:28:11

I was thinking that in English it is sort of an idiom to say “Can we [do something]” (question) when you are really saying, “Let’s do something” (imperative) . Does that make sense? Maybe I am wrong about this.

OFR185683 (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 30 Nyandagaro 2021 20:29:49

Because you are not asking “Are we able to eat noodles for dinner?” (Is it technically possible to eat them?)

sergejm (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 30 Nyandagaro 2021 21:04:15

In Russian it wiil be "Можно мы сегодня съедим лапшу на ужин?"
Goolge Translate this as "ĉu ni povas manĝi nudelojn por vespermanĝi ĉi-vespere?".
Google Translate translates "Can we have noodles for dinner?" as "Ĉu ni povas manĝi nudelojn por vespermanĝi?"
The beginning is the same, the ending is not good, so better:
"Ĉu ni povas manĝi nudelojn por vespermanĝo?"
PS:
1. Earlier mi wrote "por vespermangon?" - it is incorrect, it is not possible use -n post por.
2. "nudeloj" is plural, see https://vortaro.net/#nudeloj_kd

OFR185683 (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 30 Nyandagaro 2021 22:06:55

Cool!

But I still think there is a difference between:

Can we eat noodles for dinner?
And a polite way of saying, “Let’s eat noodles for dinner!”.

Like I said previously, the first one is asking if it is technically possible, not asking to do it.

What do people think about this?

sergejm (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 31 Nyandagaro 2021 03:00:06

"Ni manĝu nudelojn por vespermanĝo!" Is also possible. But this is not polite.
"Ni bonvolu manĝi nudelojn por vespermanĝo!" - "Let's eat noodles for dinner, please!" - but sound not as usually, common use is without "ni".

Metsis (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 31 Nyandagaro 2021 10:48:16

@OFR185683,

PMEG says about the u-modo (my emphasis)
PMEG:
U-formo montras, ke la ago aŭ stato ne estas reala, sed dezirata, volata, ordonata aŭ celata. U-formo ne montras la tempon de la ago, sed la ago ordinare troviĝas en la estonteco.
and gives among examples
 
    ● Ĉu ni iru al la dancejo?

with an explanation that the effective sense is a polite request. So your
 
    ● Ĉu ni manĝu nudelaĵon por vespermanĝo?

will normally do. (Note, the suffix -aĵo is commonly used to show meal prepared from that substance, e.g. fiŝo → fiŝaĵo, fish (as an animal) resp. fish (prepared to be a meal).

If that is not polite enough for you, you can change to
 
  • Ĉu ni bonvolu manĝi nudelaĵon por vespermanĝo?
  • Ĉu ni bonvole manĝu nudelaĵon por vespermanĝo?
But in my book, that is exaggeration, which brings up the point that there are cultural differences what is considered polite, lip service etc. For instance in my location a common way would be using a negation:
 
    ● Ĉu ni ne manĝu nudelaĵon por vespermanĝo?

sergejm (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 31 Nyandagaro 2021 11:09:29

Nudeloj isn't any animal or plant, it is ready food, you need only to warm it. Nobody eats one noodle only, so it is used in plural.
-aĵo is not needed.

OFR185683 (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 31 Nyandagaro 2021 14:51:34

That is interesting! Dankon, Metsis! I agree, that is definitely exaggeration. And just so you know, the reason I asked this question is not because I feel like people need to be polite and do lip service all the time, I just thought it was an interesting topic ridulo.gif also, maybe polite is the wrong way to describe this, sorry if it sounded like I am crazy about manners haha 😂 Dankon pro klarigis tiun ĉi!

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